Dieting, leptin , and depression.............

[donnajo]

This ? came up in the strength thread and deserves its own thread.

I just found out dieting affects Leptin which while dieting drops seritonin levels as I understand it.

How much could this lead to depression?

This new knowledge set off a light bulb and could be very groundbreaking for me in my treatment for depression.I was dieting for most of last year and became severely depressed. Now I think some of it was hypothyroid that I discovered then but what about falling seritonin levels. My mood, attitude, and behavior all changed. I became moody, angry , and sad.

I am now on synthroid and an antidepressant also if that matters to the answer also.

I wonder if dieting should be done in short phases intermittent with maintenance for those of us predisposed to depression?

[Ana]

I just commented about this in the other thread. I'm most depressed when I'm big. I may get a little more tired when dieting but it actually took care of my depression.

[Fitwolf]

:popcorn:

another great thread Donna!

I think depression is so complex - for me it is thyroid, situation, a natural tendency towards depression, a family history... plus situational...

I haven't dieted (for real) enough to know how it effects my depression.

[donnajo]

I just commented about this in the other thread. I'm most depressed when I'm big. I may get a little more tired when dieting but it actually took care of my depression.

Yeah, but it is interesting because seritonin levels drop and that affects mood. So, I am wondering if for me if that was a significant factor.

[Ana]

Yeah, but it is interesting because seritonin levels drop and that affects mood. So, I am wondering if for me if that was a significant factor.
How long did you diet? How lean did you get?
I've been dieting (albeit ineffective) since I was 18. That's probably why my thryroid is messed up. I've been the most depressed when fat.

[donnajo]

How long did you diet? How lean did you get?
I've been dieting (albeit ineffective) since I was 18. That's probably why my thryroid is messed up. I've been the most depressed when fat.


I dieted for Jan - July. I lost 20 lbs.

I used to diet and exercise like a maniac on top of doing sports in high school and college. I get extremely thin my first year of college. Too thin for me. I think that too affected my thyroid also.

[Erik]

I've read that depression can influence set point. When you're depressed, serotonin and dopamine levels tend to fall. So the brain then already has lower baseline levels of certain neurotransmitters so a given quantity of circulating leptin will produce less of a normal signal.

People who've fought with depression know that when they're struggling they often turn to external things to help. Whether it be drugs OR food, etc., the point is that those compensatory actionstend to boost circulating levels of those neurotransmitters.

Anything that affects psychological status impacts the same neurotransmitters affected by leptin, and for that reason, changes in psychological state may possibly influence setpoint patterns.

Some people are born with a shortage of dopamine receptors in certain parts of the brain. So their baseline levels of dopamine are lower. These people have a natural propensity towards anxiety and depression. They also tend to have a natural propensity to engage in things that boost that dopamine signaling, like various drug addictions, alcoholism, and eating.

[donnajo]

Hmm. Where did you read this? Any suggestions of where to get more info on this?

[Fitwolf]

Some people are born with a shortage of dopamine receptors in certain parts of the brain. So their baseline levels of dopamine are lower. These people have a natural propensity towards anxiety and depression. They also tend to have a natural propensity to engage in things that boost that dopamine signaling, like various drug addictions, alcoholism, and eating.

:dry: this sounds an awful lot like me... and my father. :dry:

[Fitwolf]

I've read that depression can influence set point. When you're depressed, serotonin and dopamine levels tend to fall. So the brain then already has lower baseline levels of certain neurotransmitters so a given quantity of circulating leptin will produce less of a normal signal.


I'm having trouble understanding...so

1. depressed
2. serotonin and dopamine levels fall
3. brain has lower baseline level of neurotransmitters...

this is where I'm confused. The brain is basing it's baseline on the depressed level of neurotransmitters?

And then... why does a certain quantity of letpin produce less of a signal... is it because the neurotransmitters are lower?

[Erik]

I'm having trouble understanding...so

1. depressed
2. serotonin and dopamine levels fall
3. brain has lower baseline level of neurotransmitters...

this is where I'm confused. The brain is basing it's baseline on the depressed level of neurotransmitters?

And then... why does a certain quantity of letpin produce less of a signal... is it because the neurotransmitters are lower?

Well the baseline is whatever level you're normally at.

Yes.

There's a certain amount of dopamine/serotonin that provides the 'feel good' or 'everything is alright' effect.

If your baseline of those neurotransmitters is lower than normal, then the stimulated neurotransmitter response (when leptin attaches to leptin receptors in the brain) will not bring them up as high, so you'll still not necessarily reach that feel good effect, or rather the 'everything is normal' feeling.

For example, let's say the feel good effect happens at 10 units. Normal is 7 units and leptin stimulation gives you another 3.

If you have depressed levels and are at 3 units, leptin only bumps you to 6.

Make sense?

[H&G'sMom]

Well the baseline is whatever level you're normally at.

Yes.

There's a certain amount of dopamine/serotonin that provides the 'feel good' or 'everything is alright' effect.

If your baseline of those neurotransmitters is lower than normal, then the stimulated neurotransmitter response (when leptin attaches to leptin receptors in the brain) will not bring them up as high, so you'll still not necessarily reach that feel good effect, or rather the 'everything is normal' feeling.

For example, let's say the feel good effect happens at 10 units. Normal is 7 units and leptin stimulation gives you another 3.

If you have depressed levels and are at 3 units, leptin only bumps you to 6.

Make sense?

Wow.
This is really interesting to hear. I had never thought of it before, but the explaination makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Cindy Day]

Yeah, but it is interesting because seritonin levels drop and that affects mood. So, I am wondering if for me if that was a significant factor.
What does your bloodwork/thyroid results say ???

[Fitwolf]

I understand a bit more - thanks!

[donnajo]

What does your bloodwork/thyroid results say ???

I just talked to a good friend tonight. My doctors are not stepping up to the plate. She works for doctors and she is suggesting a new doctor for me. So I am looking forward to some positive advice. I am making an appointment in January.

[pixie]

I noticed that when I switched from Synthroid to Armour Thyroid it helped my mood swings and depression. Though to be fair, I was only mildly depressed, but still it did help.

I was also given the option of adding Cytomel (Cytomil - sp?) to the Synthroid, but I went the Armour route. You might want to ask your doc or research on your own to see if that's an option.

[donnajo]

I noticed that when I switched from Synthroid to Armour Thyroid it helped my mood swings and depression. Though to be fair, I was only mildly depressed, but still it did help.

I was also given the option of adding Cytomel (Cytomil - sp?) to the Synthroid, but I went the Armour route. You might want to ask your doc or research on your own to see if that's an option.

Thanks I will talk to my doctor about that. I am going to a new doctor in January who I think will help me better with my thyroid.

[Fitwolf]

Glad you are going to a new doc... the whole thyroid thing is really irritating! I've had a hard time getting docs to do a very good job monitoring it also.

Pixie, there's been discussion of adding Cytomel (T3) to my drugs too... haven't done it yet though.

Donna, how long did you diet for before you became depressed? Was there a incident or situation that set off your depression? During your depression did you stay at the same bf that you had reached by dieting?

[Inatic]

I noticed that when I switched from Synthroid to Armour Thyroid it helped my mood swings and depression. Though to be fair, I was only mildly depressed, but still it did help.

I was also given the option of adding Cytomel (Cytomil - sp?) to the Synthroid, but I went the Armour route. You might want to ask your doc or research on your own to see if that's an option.

probably cause T3 is a huge help with depression. Synthoid is t4 only. Many people need both because they dont convert the T4 over.

If you optimized, you shouldnt have depression issues while dieting.

[Ana]

I have levothyroxine. what's that? Just T4?

[Inatic]

I have levothyroxine. what's that? Just T4?
yes

[Ana]

yes
How do I find out if I need T3? I think you saw my test results last yr and you thought everything was fine
I'm definitely not depressed :happy05:

[Inatic]

you need an Ft3 and an Ft4. Some doc's redfuse to test the ft3. They should be at least midrange, some feel better in the upper quadrant especially the Ft3.

We test my ranges every 6mo.

[Ana]

you need an Ft3 and an Ft4. Some doc's redfuse to test the ft3. They should be at least midrange, some feel better in the upper quadrant especially the Ft3.

We test my ranges every 6mo.
I think my dr would kill me if I did that. I'll ask next time around

[donnajo]

Glad you are going to a new doc... the whole thyroid thing is really irritating! I've had a hard time getting docs to do a very good job monitoring it also.

Pixie, there's been discussion of adding Cytomel (T3) to my drugs too... haven't done it yet though.

Donna, how long did you diet for before you became depressed? Was there a incident or situation that set off your depression? During your depression did you stay at the same bf that you had reached by dieting?


I am not sure when it started because I was not really aware of it until others noticed. Then it gradually got worse.

I have been able to maintain within an up or down 5 lbs of where I reached dieting. My body does well maintaining after I diet. It also does good maintaining if I gain so I have to really work at the diet.

[donnajo]

probably cause T3 is a huge help with depression. Synthoid is t4 only. Many people need both because they dont convert the T4 over.

If you optimized, you shouldnt have depression issues while dieting.


I am excited to go to a new doctor. She helped my friend with her thyroid and keeps up with it. I will be discussing this with her. Thanks, Ileen.

[donnajo]

How do I find out if I need T3? I think you saw my test results last yr and you thought everything was fine
I'm definitely not depressed :happy05:


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