Constructing a full body routine

[Leah]

Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
RDLs
Barbell Rows

All done for 3-4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Pull Throughs
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2-3x12 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Incline Dumbbell Rows
Dumbbell Split Squats
SHELC
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x8 w/ 60s rest

[3sweeties]

Would this routine be okay to use if your goal is fat loss?

[Brandi]

Originally posted by 3sweeties@May 2 2006, 07:01 PM
Would this routine be okay to use if your goal is fat loss?
I believe so.

[Lyn]

Originally posted by 3sweeties@May 2 2006, 10:01 PM
Would this routine be okay to use if your goal is fat loss?
I'm using this routine and my goal is fat loss, lots of fat loss.

[smuggie]

To repeat what I'm always saying, fat loss is a consequence of diet, not a particular program.

[Lyn]

Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 06:08 PM
To repeat what I'm always saying, fat loss is a consequence of diet, not a particular program.
Yes Smuggie I definitely realize that. I was just commenting that I'm using this particular routine as a way to maintain and not lose the muscle that I already have while I'm losing the extra weight. Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. :)

[Blondell]

I plan to begin this program next week. Should these be supersets at all, or is there a rest between each individual set? Please and Thank you. :)

[Leah]

Originally posted by bdd814@May 5 2006, 07:43 PM
I plan to begin this program next week. Should these be supersets at all, or is there a rest between each individual set? Please and Thank you. :)
You can on some things....not everything would work but I would where I could

[jasonblanco]

If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p

[quickie]

Originally posted by jasonblanco@May 6 2006, 03:58 AM
If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p
Good work. ;)

[PinkGlitter86]

Originally posted by jasonblanco@May 5 2006, 11:58 PM
If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p
That's amazing! Thanks for posting that!

[Erik]

Add in this potential modification to this program ...

Day 1
Week 1 - 3x6
Week 2 - 4x6
Week 3 - 5x6
Week 4 - 2-3x6

Day 2
Week 1 - 2x15
Week 2 - 3x15
Week 3 - 4x15
Week 4 - 2x15

Day 3
Week 1 - 3x8
Week 2 - 4x8
Week 3 - 5x8
Week 4 - 2-3x8

[northernstar]

Originally posted by jasonblanco@May 6 2006, 03:58 AM
If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p
That's awesome!! Printing now....

[Robben]

Originally posted by Thunder@May 6 2006, 01:40 PM
Add in this potential modification to this program ...

Day 1
Week 1 - 4x6
Week 2 - 5x6
Week 3 - 6x6
Week 4 - 3x6

Day 2
Week 1 - 2x15
Week 2 - 3x15
Week 3 - 4x15
Week 4 - 2x15

Day 3
Week 1 - 3x8
Week 2 - 4x8
Week 3 - 5x8
Week 4 - 2-3x8
"T", in the upcoming months it will be fun to see how those who use your Fullbody workout - the program, improve... There's nothing better than looking into a mirror and seeing the rewards of rep -n- set cycling...

[Fet]

Originally posted by jasonblanco@May 5 2006, 10:58 PM
If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p
It would take a helluva lot more than that to make me look cool at the gym. :(

[homeschoolmom]

Can you/should you cycle through this 2X per week? Do you need to have a day off between cycles? I'm thinking my plan would look something like:

Monday: Day 1
Tuesday: Day 2
Wednesday: Day 3
Thursday: Cardio/off
Friday: Day 1
Saturday: Day 2
Sunday: Day 3
Monday: off/cardio
etc.

Does this look right?

Thanks! :)

[Jypsie]

OK, I admit I'm a n00b. Why is the rest interval 120s? What determines this time? What happens if you rest longer or not as long?

[Erik]

Originally posted by homeschoolmom@May 8 2006, 12:58 PM
Can you/should you cycle through this 2X per week? Do you need to have a day off between cycles? I'm thinking my plan would look something like:

Monday: Day 1
Tuesday: Day 2
Wednesday: Day 3
Thursday: Cardio/off
Friday: Day 1
Saturday: Day 2
Sunday: Day 3
Monday: off/cardio
etc.

Does this look right?

Thanks! :)
No

[Erik]

Originally posted by Jypsie@May 8 2006, 01:00 PM
OK, I admit I'm a n00b. Why is the rest interval 120s? What determines this time? What happens if you rest longer or not as long?
Because you need to rest

Heavier loads require longer rest intervals.

[Jypsie]

Originally posted by Thunder@May 8 2006, 12:07 PM
Because you need to rest

Heavier loads require longer rest intervals.
Makes sense to me :) Thanks!

[stillastudent]

Originally posted by homeschoolmom@May 8 2006, 04:58 PM
Can you/should you cycle through this 2X per week? Do you need to have a day off between cycles? I'm thinking my plan would look something like:

Monday: Day 1
Tuesday: Day 2
Wednesday: Day 3
Thursday: Cardio/off
Friday: Day 1
Saturday: Day 2
Sunday: Day 3
Monday: off/cardio
etc.

Does this look right?

Thanks! :)
Monday - Day 1
Tuesday - Cardio/Off
Wednesday - Day 2
Thursday - Cardio/off
Friday - Day 3

[homeschoolmom]

Originally posted by Thunder+May 8 2006, 01:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunder &#064; May 8 2006, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-homeschoolmom@May 8 2006, 12:58 PM
Can you/should you cycle through this 2X per week? Do you need to have a day off between cycles? I&#39;m thinking my plan would look something like:

Monday: Day 1
Tuesday: Day 2
Wednesday: Day 3
Thursday: Cardio/off
Friday: Day 1
Saturday: Day 2
Sunday: Day 3
Monday: off/cardio
etc.

Does this look right?

Thanks&#33; :)
No[/b][/quote]
A little more here please, T. Is what stillastudent posted what I should be doing? Only 3 days a week of weight training? :confused: I might have withdrawal&#33; :p

[Brandi]

Yup only three days.

You&#39;d be overtraining the other way. Quality or quantity?

[homeschoolmom]

Thanks Brandi&#33; I&#39;ll take the quality&#33;&#33; :)

[Elixa]

So this workout is adequate to hit all muscles? I&#39;m especially looking to build muscle in my legs and butt. And will your muscles become used to doing the same workouts each week, even if you up the reps or weight?

[Leah]

Originally posted by Elixa@May 9 2006, 11:29 AM
So this workout is adequate to hit all muscles? I&#39;m especially looking to build muscle in my legs and butt. And will your muscles become used to doing the same workouts each week, even if you up the reps or weight?
Yes...it&#39;s adequate to hit all muscles.

Assuming you&#39;re pushing yourself and striving to add weight to the bar each week...your body will not get used to it....a program should last 4-6 weeks anyway.

[Elixa]

ok thank you&#33;

[Elixa]

oh i forgot to ask..what do you do if you want to incorporate different types of squats, lunges, etc? should you just pick one type (i.e. sumo squats or plie squats, or reverse lunges or walking lunges) to do each workout?

[Leah]

Originally posted by Elixa@May 9 2006, 11:58 AM
oh i forgot to ask..what do you do if you want to incorporate different types of squats, lunges, etc? should you just pick one type (i.e. sumo squats or plie squats, or reverse lunges or walking lunges) to do each workout?
You put them in your program the next time around :)

[Elixa]

sorry to sound so stupid..but next time around as in the next week when you do that workout?

[stillastudent]

Originally posted by Elixa@May 9 2006, 04:47 PM
sorry to sound so stupid..but next time around as in the next week when you do that workout?
When you readjust your program after 4-6 weeks.

[Elixa]

so would you add them in addition to doing the normal squats or normal lunges? so that your workout would actually be longer after 4-6 weeks?

[jasonblanco]

Originally posted by Elixa@May 9 2006, 11:47 AM
sorry to sound so stupid..but next time around as in the next week when you do that workout?
I believe Leah meant the next time you change your program. In other words, you would do the prescribed program as it is written, pushing each week to add more weight to your sets. After you have done that program for 4-6 weeks, then you could go back and choose different exercises like you&#39;ve mentioned.

At least for me, if I don&#39;t do the same exercises for 4-6 weeks consistently, it&#39;s difficult for me to gauge whether I&#39;m getting stronger.

[Elixa]

ok that makes sense&#33; thanks for the help

[Angelkae]

Thanks Leah, for all your advice. Today, I&#39;m going to start the routine you&#39;ve posted here. I&#39;m also going to do the rep/set cycling that Thunder posted. Hopefull I will make some progress&#33; I&#39;ll keep you posted. :train:

[Leah]

Originally posted by Angelkae@May 15 2006, 05:34 PM
Thanks Leah, for all your advice. Today, I&#39;m going to start the routine you&#39;ve posted here. I&#39;m also going to do the rep/set cycling that Thunder posted. Hopefull I will make some progress&#33; I&#39;ll keep you posted. :train:
Good luck and have fun :D

[Strive2Define]

Originally posted by Leah@May 1 2006, 06:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Is it okay to switch out.. some of the exercise in these routines..just for variation?

Say for instance on Day1..instead of doing CDL&#39;s..substitute them w/ RDL&#39;S? Also instead of doing 3x10 ..go much heavier and do say 5/6x5??

[Leah]

Originally posted by Strive2Define+May 15 2006, 10:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strive2Define @ May 15 2006, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Leah@May 1 2006, 06:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Is it okay to switch out.. some of the exercise in these routines..just for variation?

Say for instance on Day1..instead of doing CDL&#39;s..substitute them w/ RDL&#39;S? Also instead of doing 3x10 ..go much heavier and do say 5/6x5?? [/b][/quote]
But....how do you mean? You&#39;re already doing a day that&#39;s 5x6 so how are you switching 5x6 for the 3x10???

And you&#39;re already doing RDL&#39;s on day 2

[mark]

Originally posted by Leah+May 15 2006, 07:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Leah @ May 15 2006, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Strive2Define@May 15 2006, 10:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Leah@May 1 2006, 06:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Is it okay to switch out.. some of the exercise in these routines..just for variation?

Say for instance on Day1..instead of doing CDL&#39;s..substitute them w/ RDL&#39;S? Also instead of doing 3x10 ..go much heavier and do say 5/6x5??
But....how do you mean? You&#39;re already doing a day that&#39;s 5x6 so how are you switching 5x6 for the 3x10???

And you&#39;re already doing RDL&#39;s on day 2 [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t understand this either. The exercises are pretty well thought out as they are. If you want to go heavier, you could switch Day 2 to 3x10 and take Day 3 to 4x8. And you could add in the step loading thing. But I wouldn&#39;t go trying to change around the exercises.

[Strive2Define]

Originally posted by Leah+May 15 2006, 10:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Leah @ May 15 2006, 10:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Strive2Define@May 15 2006, 10:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Leah@May 1 2006, 06:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Is it okay to switch out.. some of the exercise in these routines..just for variation?

Say for instance on Day1..instead of doing CDL&#39;s..substitute them w/ RDL&#39;S? Also instead of doing 3x10 ..go much heavier and do say 5/6x5??
But....how do you mean? You&#39;re already doing a day that&#39;s 5x6 so how are you switching 5x6 for the 3x10???

And you&#39;re already doing RDL&#39;s on day 2 [/b][/quote]
Well duh, I must have missed the 5x6 notation..sorry about that.....as for switching..when I said switch RDL&#39;S for CDL&#39;s..that is what I meant..If I do them on day 1 I, of course, would not do them on Day2...and there was no particular reason for doing this..just for variation..trying to get more mileage out of a (good pretty well thought out program) split.Oh, and I was just using that switch in exercises as an example as to what I was proposing.



PS...Mark just so you know...I am disputing the validity of this or how good or well thought out it is..I was just looking for some variety w/o losing the core movements.You know..change. :p

[Angelkae]

Originally posted by Leah@May 15 2006, 05:26 PM
Good luck and have fun :D
What else should I be doing, in addition to this? Of course I&#39;m doing cardio, but anything else where weight training is concerned?

The reason I&#39;m asking is because I&#39;m worried about not getting a good enough workout in the abs... I really need that&#33; I did the day 1 program on monday and will do the day 2 program tonight, I like it, but the abs were a concern of mine.

Also, how much cardio should I get? Someone was telling me that too much is inneffective, but I also don&#39;t want to do to little.

[Leah]

Originally posted by Angelkae@May 17 2006, 02:17 PM
What else should I be doing, in addition to this? Of course I&#39;m doing cardio, but anything else where weight training is concerned?

The reason I&#39;m asking is because I&#39;m worried about not getting a good enough workout in the abs... I really need that&#33; I did the day 1 program on monday and will do the day 2 program tonight, I like it, but the abs were a concern of mine.

Also, how much cardio should I get? Someone was telling me that too much is inneffective, but I also don&#39;t want to do to little.
Your abs will be getting plenty of work on those days but if you really want to work them w/ additional work, do it the same way you work your other muscles...2x a week, once w/ a heavier weight, lower rep, once w/ a lighter weight and higher rep. Do not do them every single day though.

You can do you cardio on your off days....maybe 1-2 SS for 30 min or so and 1 HIIT....

[Angelkae]

Originally posted by Leah+May 17 2006, 01:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Leah @ May 17 2006, 01:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Angelkae@May 17 2006, 02:17 PM
What else should I be doing, in addition to this? Of course I&#39;m doing cardio, but anything else where weight training is concerned?

The reason I&#39;m asking is because I&#39;m worried about not getting a good enough workout in the abs... I really need that&#33; I did the day 1 program on monday and will do the day 2 program tonight, I like it, but the abs were a concern of mine.

Also, how much cardio should I get? Someone was telling me that too much is inneffective, but I also don&#39;t want to do to little.
Your abs will be getting plenty of work on those days but if you really want to work them w/ additional work, do it the same way you work your other muscles...2x a week, once w/ a heavier weight, lower rep, once w/ a lighter weight and higher rep. Do not do them every single day though.

You can do you cardio on your off days....maybe 1-2 SS for 30 min or so and 1 HIIT.... [/b][/quote]
So, no cardio at all on lifting days? Not even a 10 minute warmup or something?

Geez, I&#39;m getting way too much cardio. lol

What doe 1-2 SS mean?

[Leah]

Originally posted by Angelkae+May 17 2006, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Angelkae @ May 17 2006, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Leah@May 17 2006, 01:24 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Angelkae@May 17 2006, 02:17 PM
What else should I be doing, in addition to this? Of course I&#39;m doing cardio, but anything else where weight training is concerned?

The reason I&#39;m asking is because I&#39;m worried about not getting a good enough workout in the abs... I really need that&#33; I did the day 1 program on monday and will do the day 2 program tonight, I like it, but the abs were a concern of mine.

Also, how much cardio should I get? Someone was telling me that too much is inneffective, but I also don&#39;t want to do to little.
Your abs will be getting plenty of work on those days but if you really want to work them w/ additional work, do it the same way you work your other muscles...2x a week, once w/ a heavier weight, lower rep, once w/ a lighter weight and higher rep. Do not do them every single day though.

You can do you cardio on your off days....maybe 1-2 SS for 30 min or so and 1 HIIT....
So, no cardio at all on lifting days? Not even a 10 minute warmup or something?

Geez, I&#39;m getting way too much cardio. lol

What doe 1-2 SS mean? [/b][/quote]
I don&#39;t see much point to a cardio warm up before weights. You should definitely warm up w/ your lifts though. I typically warm up on bench, squats, deads, and overhead pressing....w/ progressively heavier weights and lower reps until I reach my working weight.

1-2 Steady State cardio sessions.

[Angelkae]

Originally posted by Leah+May 17 2006, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Leah @ May 17 2006, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Angelkae@May 17 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Leah@May 17 2006, 01:24 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Angelkae@May 17 2006, 02:17 PM
What else should I be doing, in addition to this? Of course I&#39;m doing cardio, but anything else where weight training is concerned?

The reason I&#39;m asking is because I&#39;m worried about not getting a good enough workout in the abs... I really need that&#33; I did the day 1 program on monday and will do the day 2 program tonight, I like it, but the abs were a concern of mine.

Also, how much cardio should I get? Someone was telling me that too much is inneffective, but I also don&#39;t want to do to little.
Your abs will be getting plenty of work on those days but if you really want to work them w/ additional work, do it the same way you work your other muscles...2x a week, once w/ a heavier weight, lower rep, once w/ a lighter weight and higher rep. Do not do them every single day though.

You can do you cardio on your off days....maybe 1-2 SS for 30 min or so and 1 HIIT....
So, no cardio at all on lifting days? Not even a 10 minute warmup or something?

Geez, I&#39;m getting way too much cardio. lol

What doe 1-2 SS mean?
I don&#39;t see much point to a cardio warm up before weights. You should definitely warm up w/ your lifts though. I typically warm up on bench, squats, deads, and overhead pressing....w/ progressively heavier weights and lower reps until I reach my working weight.

1-2 Steady State cardio sessions. [/b][/quote]
Okay, thanks.

[MJTWO]

I&#39;ve always done two body part workouts 4 sets of 6-8 reps.
Just started full body routine. What is the advantage to 5 set of 6, 2 x 15 and 3 x 10?

[Erik]

Originally posted by MJTWO@May 18 2006, 02:19 PM
I&#39;ve always done two body part workouts 4 sets of 6-8 reps.
Just started full body routine. What is the advantage to 5 set of 6, 2 x 15 and 3 x 10?
Varying intensity levels helps prevent too much CNS drain. Training across rep ranges hits different muscle fibers/motor units.

Why would you always use the same set/rep setup?

[MJTWO]

Sorry. CNS drain?
Same set/rep + 2 body parts/workout is how I originally learned to train. Never used a journal. Pyramid weight w/each set and move up weight when able to get to 10 reps.
Looking for better and more efficient ways to get results.

[Hoochiemomma]

Yikes - did you notice that you are member # 666?

and, I believe CNS is central nervous system...

[MJTWO]

Great...that&#39;s just great&#33; Can somebody change that for me?
Thanks for spelling out acronym...brave of you momma&#33;
Okay, what the hell is a central nervous system drain? That can&#39;t be good.

[Erik]

Originally posted by MJTWO@May 19 2006, 02:15 PM
Great...that&#39;s just great&#33; Can somebody change that for me?
Thanks for spelling out acronym...brave of you momma&#33;
Okay, what the hell is a central nervous system drain? That can&#39;t be good.
Overtraining ...

[Erik]

Originally posted by MJTWO@May 19 2006, 11:24 AM
Sorry. CNS drain?
Same set/rep + 2 body parts/workout is how I originally learned to train. Never used a journal. Pyramid weight w/each set and move up weight when able to get to 10 reps.
Looking for better and more efficient ways to get results.
Short lesson

1. Always using the same parameters for everything is a mistake. Mix it up - some heavier, low rep work and then some lighter, higher rep work.

It&#39;s good for long term recovery as well as for hitting the various types of muscle fibers/motor units.

Low rep and higher rep work also function as triggers for different types of &#39;growth&#39;. The former for actual increases in muscle fiber size; the latter more for increases in the non contractile components of the cell - enzymes, water, glycogen, etc.

Pyramiding for the most part, unless you&#39;re working up to a heavy set of 5 on something like a 5x5 set up, I think isn&#39;t your best bet. Too much submaximal work if you&#39;re using this approach on every training session.

[MJTWO]

Appreciate the comments and info.
Starting full body 5 x 6, 2 x 15 and 3 x 10 next week.
Time to start keeping a journal. Looking forward to seeing/feeling results.

[jennp0722]

i have been using this workout now for 2 weeks and am still alittle confused. do i add weight reach set or every week? and then if i am following this workout i should only do cardio on my off days and that should be hiit.

[PowerManDL]

I should note that CNS inhibition is only going to occur from conditions of maximal arousal/neural drive, which means either super-heavy limit sets (1-3 reps), or repeatedly taking higher rep stuff (5-10) to the absolute limit.

I think natural lifters should spend the majority of their time working in the 4-6 range, with only occasional forays into the 8-12 zone, and even less into the 15+ zone.

[Erik]

Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 22 2006, 01:58 PM
I should note that CNS inhibition is only going to occur from conditions of maximal arousal/neural drive, which means either super-heavy limit sets (1-3 reps), or repeatedly taking higher rep stuff (5-10) to the absolute limit.

I think natural lifters should spend the majority of their time working in the 4-6 range, with only occasional forays into the 8-12 zone, and even less into the 15+ zone.
What about beginners?

[Blondell]

I am currently starting back up after an injury to my quads. Is it okay to substitute one-legged presses for lunges?

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by Thunder+May 22 2006, 02:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunder @ May 22 2006, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL@May 22 2006, 01:58 PM
I should note that CNS inhibition is only going to occur from conditions of maximal arousal/neural drive, which means either super-heavy limit sets (1-3 reps), or repeatedly taking higher rep stuff (5-10) to the absolute limit.

I think natural lifters should spend the majority of their time working in the 4-6 range, with only occasional forays into the 8-12 zone, and even less into the 15+ zone.
What about beginners? [/b][/quote]
I think that holds for anyone, unless you&#39;re talking about the absolute new to the gym lifters, somebody with under 3 months experience.

In that instance I definitely feel there&#39;s cause for incorporating lighter work, mainly for issues of technique and building up the body; the heavy stuff isn&#39;t really a requirement.

[Erik]

Goal dependent? What if someone were dieting and was having a &#39;metabolic day&#39; interspersed with heavier work?

[PowerManDL]

I wouldn&#39;t do a metabolic day while dieting.

Unless it was for the express purpose of carb-depletion, but there&#39;s only a few types of diets that will benefit from that.

[Erik]

Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 24 2006, 02:23 PM
I wouldn&#39;t do a metabolic day while dieting.

Unless it was for the express purpose of carb-depletion, but there&#39;s only a few types of diets that will benefit from that.
Eh, I don&#39;t see a problem with it, particularly when there&#39;s enough heavy work to balance it out.

[PowerManDL]

I do. It&#39;s not a matter of adaptation; I just don&#39;t like wasting volume on work that&#39;s superfluous in light of the goal at hand, and the fact that you&#39;re already operating in a deficit.

[Erik]

Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 24 2006, 02:31 PM
I do. It&#39;s not a matter of adaptation; I just don&#39;t like wasting volume on work that&#39;s superfluous in light of the goal at hand, and the fact that you&#39;re already operating in a deficit.
Tell me the cons. (when balanced with heavy work)

Keep in mind, I&#39;d never personally do it. :lol: Too painful.

[PowerManDL]

Essentially, it&#39;s a volume of work that could be devoted to what you need in a calorie deficit - ie, maintenance of the protein content in the muscle.

Metabolic adaptations shouldn&#39;t really be a strength-training priority during a diet; that&#39;s what cardio is for.

Though, if you truly wanted to do depletion work....I wouldn&#39;t necessarily see a problem with it, just that it could potentially impact the strength work if not synchronized with the diet. Depleting glycogen isn&#39;t the best of ideas on a diet when you&#39;re trying to retain protein, unless it&#39;s done in a way to minimize the impact (see UD2.0); AMPK is a vengeful bastard. Seeing as the strength work is the priority, you can see where problems may crop up.

[dearest22]

Just to clafiry-

you do all of one exercise, then move to the next?

example:

squats
rest
squats
rest
squats
rest
squats... repeat until finished.

[MJTWO]

That&#39;s it

[Feather]

what is a good substitution for the seated cable rows on day two? I don&#39;t have the equipment to do this exercise. I only have a bench, olympic bar and dumbbells, and a pull down cable.

[Erik]

Originally posted by Feather@Jun 11 2006, 09:31 PM
what is a good substitution for the seated cable rows on day two? I don&#39;t have the equipment to do this exercise. I only have a bench, olympic bar and dumbbells, and a pull down cable.
Incline dumbbell rows/Chest supported dumbbell rows.

[Feather]

Thank you :)

[Lydia]

I looked around on the websites reccomended in the sticky for exercise demos, but could not find dumbbell split squats...can someone please explain what that is and how to do it? Thanks&#33; :train:

[Brandi]

Hold your dumbbells and then you&#39;ll be doing a static lunge.

[Lydia]

Originally posted by Brandi@Jun 18 2006, 01:47 PM
Hold your dumbbells and then you&#39;ll be doing a static lunge.
So it&#39;s just a static lunge...not a squat at all???

[Brandi]

It is a squat, in lunge position, just don&#39;t lunge. Does that explain it better?

[Brandi]

Here&#39;s a pic. Her back leg looks weird though...

http://www.fitmoves.com/images/Exercise%20Dictionary/SplitSquat2.jpg.jpg

[Lydia]

So it looks like the back leg is just extended and not bent (as in knee ot the floor)?? Is that correct?

Thanks for the help BTW

[Brandi]

It is sorta bent, I guess. Just get into a lunge position, drop your hips towards the floor.

[Lydia]

Thanks...I&#39;ll try it out.

[Tricia]

Any ideas on what I can sub for the CD, last time I did this workout, I tried them, and they about killed my hips, even with no weight :blink: Could be my 50 year old hips. So I ended up subbing the RD for it, yes did them twice in that week, and had no problems with that .... reading here that it&#39;s not a good thing? I work out at home with DBells.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated :love:

TRicia

[Bubblicious]

Originally posted by Leah@May 1 2006, 02:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Um, I don&#39;t know if it was mentioned or not, but in the sticky at O2, Day 1 of this workout shows to do 5x6...:unsure: Which one is right??

[donnajo]

Originally posted by Bubblicious+Jun 29 2006, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bubblicious @ Jun 29 2006, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Leah@May 1 2006, 02:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Um, I don&#39;t know if it was mentioned or not, but in the sticky at O2, Day 1 of this workout shows to do 5x6...:unsure: Which one is right?? [/b][/quote]
does it matter? I say do what you prefer. Or you could cycle the sets like Thunder suggested in a earlier post. first week 4 sets, next week 5, then 6, then back to 3-4 on the 4th week. Periodizing it basically.

[jill]

Originally posted by Thunder@May 6 2006, 01:40 PM
Add in this potential modification to this program ...

Day 1
Week 1 - 3x6
Week 2 - 4x6
Week 3 - 5x6
Week 4 - 2-3x6

Day 2
Week 1 - 2x15
Week 2 - 3x15
Week 3 - 4x15
Week 4 - 2x15

Day 3
Week 1 - 3x8
Week 2 - 4x8
Week 3 - 5x8
Week 4 - 2-3x8
In the potential modificaton, it says day 3, sets X 8. In the initial program it says day 3, sets X 10.

Which rep range would be most beneficial? 8 or 10?

Thanks&#33;

[Erik]

You can pick. Won&#39;t make much of a difference. 8s if you want slightly heavier loading.

[jill]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jun 30 2006, 01:39 PM
You can pick. Won&#39;t make much of a difference. 8s if you want slightly heavier loading.
Thank you.

[jill]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jun 30 2006, 01:39 PM
You can pick. Won&#39;t make much of a difference. 8s if you want slightly heavier loading.
Oh-Do YOU Thunder prefer one or the other?

[jill]

Originally posted by bdd814@May 22 2006, 01:20 PM
I am currently starting back up after an injury to my quads. Is it okay to substitute one-legged presses for lunges?
I hve knee problems too.... Substitution?

[Erik]

Originally posted by jill@Jun 30 2006, 02:40 PM
Oh-Do YOU Thunder prefer one or the other?
Not really, no.

[Showtime]

Originally posted by jasonblanco@May 5 2006, 10:58 PM
If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p
Ok I&#39;m a bit lost.

On this sheet you made it shows day three as being what looks like 10 Sets of <blank> Isn&#39;t it suppost to be 3 sets of <blank> (ie 10)

[Anniegrl]

Originally posted by Showtime@Jul 6 2006, 09:51 AM
Ok I&#39;m a bit lost.

On this sheet you made it shows day three as being what looks like 10 Sets of <blank> Isn&#39;t it suppost to be 3 sets of <blank> (ie 10)
I was wondering the same thing....

[quickie]

Originally posted by Showtime@Jul 6 2006, 07:51 AM
Ok I&#39;m a bit lost.

On this sheet you made it shows day three as being what looks like 10 Sets of <blank> Isn&#39;t it suppost to be 3 sets of <blank> (ie 10)
What sheet? :unsure:

It is 3 X 10 or 3 sets of 10.

I don&#39;t know why people type it 10 X 3. :scratch:

[jill]

Originally posted by Showtime@Jul 6 2006, 09:51 AM
Ok I&#39;m a bit lost.

On this sheet you made it shows day three as being what looks like 10 Sets of <blank> Isn&#39;t it suppost to be 3 sets of <blank> (ie 10)
10 sets???? To me its very clear on the sheet- 3 sets of 10 reps

[alyamac]

Opinion request. I can only do weight 3x a week, Mon-Wed. Is it bad to do this plan that way?

I should mention that this is the end of my second week doing this and I feel fine. Some minor changes seen already in some areas.

[Erik]

Originally posted by alyamac@Jul 12 2006, 09:11 PM
Opinion request. I can only do weight 3x a week, Mon-Wed. Is it bad to do this plan that way?

You mean Mon, Tues, Wed?

[alyamac]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jul 12 2006, 08:14 PM

You mean Mon, Tues, Wed?
yes. So 3 days on with weights and 4 days w/o. I am doing triathlon training and cannot fit in the weights anywhere else.

So Mon-Wed is days 1-3 listed in the beginning of this thread. Thursday I bike in am/run in the PM. Friday- HIIT in am, no PM w/o. Saturday- 2 events back to back (of the three bike/swim/run). Sunday- Long ride and yoga (which I need because of Saturday&#39;s HELL)

So, what do you think?

[Erik]

Drop it two two workouts a week only. Eliminate the high rep day.

[alyamac]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jul 12 2006, 08:24 PM
Drop it two two workouts a week only. Eliminate the high rep day.
Then split the two days to Monday for one and Wednesday for the other? Seems reasonable. I will try it. Thank you.

[Strive2Define]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jul 12 2006, 09:24 PM
Drop it two two workouts a week only. Eliminate the high rep day.
:lol: Spelling error -1 :lol:

[Erik]

Darn

[alyamac]

Originally posted by Strive2Define@Jul 12 2006, 08:32 PM
:lol: Spelling error -1 :lol:
Quick and friendly response +2 :p

[MJTWO]

Originally posted by Thunder@Jul 12 2006, 09:24 PM
Drop it two two workouts a week only. Eliminate the high rep day.
Wish i could do this. I hate high rep day&#33; Cardio lacking. Especially for lunges- really sucking wind. Any tips?

[Erik]

Originally posted by MJTWO@Jul 12 2006, 10:00 PM
Wish i could do this. I hate high rep day&#33; Cardio lacking. Especially for lunges- really sucking wind. Any tips?
The improved conditioning will come with time. Honestly, you just have to keep plugging away at it. High reps, assuming appropriately loading however, are simply never going to be easy. It just comes with the territory.

But, improved conditioning, from doing the higher reps/shorter rest work, as well as your other conditioning work (HIIT) etc, will go a long way to helping out.

[mamaj]

Originally posted by Leah@May 1 2006, 05:47 PM
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest
Is it okay to do two days in a row?

[Strive2Define]

Have any of you used this to do a 4 day split and if so..how did you arrange your 4th day?

[homeschoolmom]

My physical therapist has banned deadlifts of any sort until my back is healed. I can still do squats, lunges and split squats. Are there some other exercises I could do to replace the deadlifts? Is it even necessary to replace the deadlifts?

[Leah]

My physical therapist has banned deadlifts of any sort until my back is healed. I can still do squats, lunges and split squats. Are there some other exercises I could do to replace the deadlifts? Is it even necessary to replace the deadlifts?


What's the reason it taken away? What's wrong w/ your back?

[Leah]

Is it okay to do two days in a row?

Not so much.

[Leah]

Have any of you used this to do a 4 day split and if so..how did you arrange your 4th day?

:uhuh:

[Blondell]

:uhuh:
:lol:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Leah again. :lol3:

[Leah]

:lol:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Leah again. :lol3:


oh wow...I have two bars :clap::funny:

[Erik]

Have any of you used this to do a 4 day split and if so..how did you arrange your 4th day?

It's a 3-day program. :confused:

[homeschoolmom]

What's the reason it taken away? What's wrong w/ your back?

What was originally thought to be an SI injury turned out to be a bit more bizarre. My left femur is 1.5cm shorter than the right. To compensate the right side of my back has taken over the load and has tightened up so much that my spine is twisting. My multifudus muscles aren't operating at all. Any forward weight bearing motion strains an already over loaded portion of my back and makes it feel like it's going to pop. Until we get the multifidus firing correctly, no deadlifts. My physical therapist is doing manual/ultrasound work on the sacral area to try to get the muscles to release, but for now they are clenched up tight. Other than the deadlifts, she wants me to continue on with my current training program. I'm just concerned that I'd be missing some muscle groups or not hitting them well enough by not doing the deadlifts while doing the 3 day program.

[Tricia]

Same question on the deadlifts, do I need to substitute something else ... I can do the Romanian Deads, but not conventional ... can I just sub the RDL's, for conventional?

TIA

TRicia

[Kat]

Have a question, I saw it asked but didn't see an answer so here it goes. When I start week two and my sets go up should I also be upping my weight?

[Erik]

Have a question, I saw it asked but didn't see an answer so here it goes. When I start week two and my sets go up should I also be upping my weight?

If there comes a point when your strength allows for weight increases, I'd say increase the weight.

Adding weight to the bar over time is the big factor in progress.

You can start submaximal in the first week, build on that in the second week, hit current PRs in the third week, and really push it for new PRs in the 4th week, etc. That would be one way of approaching it.

[Kat]

If there comes a point when your strength allows for weight increases, I'd say increase the weight.

Adding weight to the bar over time is the big factor in progress.

You can start submaximal in the first week, build on that in the second week, hit current PRs in the third week, and really push it for new PRs in the 4th week, etc. That would be one way of approaching it.

Thanks!!

[Ananda]

Hi All,

I have just started doing this full body routine after forever working out with my husband doing body part workouts. It is super effective and I am really impressed so far.

Anyways, I am doing the rotation as:

Day 1
off/cardio
Day 2
off/cardio
Day 3
off/cardio

I work shift work and a lot of overtime so I am really pushing myself to go after work no matter how tired I am otherwise I'll just go home and veg out.

With my schedule being a little hectic can I do cardio after my workouts or is it a complete waste of time? Some times I can't get to the gym because of my hours of work so I try to do weights and cardio in on session. Should I just skip it or do a 20min run or something?

Thanks for your imput!

[Steve]

Hey everyone:

I am not downing the notion that full body training is the way to go at all. There are plenty of very knowledgeable people out there saying it is the way to train for the natural athlete. My question is this. Why? What are all of the benefits of full body training splits over body part splits? Is there ever a reason to do body part splits? I am sure there are some benefits to this as well, no?

Most of my life I have trained with body part split training with some success. Once I started reading a lot of forums on the web, I started realizing that most individuals who seemed to know their stuff were promoting the full body splits. I am one of those who likes to know things though, which can be annoying. I guess I will not have full faith in the full body routine (which I just started using this year) until I know the real reasons behind it.

I have ideas, but I want them confirmed.

Thanks in advance!

[strongchick]

There's a thread here on BB splits right now...may want to check it out....

[Steve]

Thanks, I will check that and see if it helps.

[Erik]

Hey everyone:

I am not downing the notion that full body training is the way to go at all. There are plenty of very knowledgeable people out there saying it is the way to train for the natural athlete. My question is this. Why? What are all of the benefits of full body training splits over body part splits? Is there ever a reason to do body part splits? I am sure there are some benefits to this as well, no?

Most of my life I have trained with body part split training with some success. Once I started reading a lot of forums on the web, I started realizing that most individuals who seemed to know their stuff were promoting the full body splits. I am one of those who likes to know things though, which can be annoying. I guess I will not have full faith in the full body routine (which I just started using this year) until I know the real reasons behind it.

I have ideas, but I want them confirmed.

Thanks in advance!

No one said FB is the way to go. It's presented as an option, and is STILL superior to archaic bodypart splits with once-per-week frequencies.

What are the benefits of a bodypart split?

Better yet - take your arguement here, since there's an active discussion on it. (be advised, it morphs a few times)

http://leanbodiesfitness.net/showthread.php?t=3962

[Steve]

No one said FB is the way to go. It's presented as an option, and is STILL superior to archaic bodypart splits with once-per-week frequencies.

What are the benefits of a bodypart split?

Better yet - take your arguement here, since there's an active discussion on it. (be advised, it morphs a few times)

http://leanbodiesfitness.net/showthread.php?t=3962

I guess I should have re-worded my post to say, "FB splits are the way to go compared with BP split training." Let's take it from there.

Also, I never said I have an argument. I simply want to better understand. I will continue this post on the thread you provided Erik.

[Erik]

I guess I should have re-worded my post to say, "FB splits are the way to go compared with BP split training." Let's take it from there.

Also, I never said I have an argument. I simply want to better understand. I will continue this post on the thread you provided Erik.

By arguement, I mean 'position'. The term arguement doesn't always mean fighting.

Personally, I don't enjoy FB splits myself. I prefer upper/lower splits.

[Steve]

I posted on the thread you mentioned. Look forward to hearing from ya!

[Blondell]

I don't understand how this could work for cutting AND bulking. Shouldn't there be a greater workload for bulking? Would the given variations of rep/set schemes come into play for a bulk? Or, does it matter? :unsure:

[shari3boys]

If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p


HI

OK so I see this post but I dont see the 3 day full body workout here with this? Can u tell me where I can find it?

Thanks
Shari

[carebearstitch]

HI

OK so I see this post but I dont see the 3 day full body workout here with this? Can u tell me where I can find it?

Thanks
Shari

http://www.leanbodiesfitness.net/showpost.php?p=858&postcount=1

[Ananda]

Shari,

Were you actually looking for the copy of the workout that you could hole punch and put in a binder like jasonblanco's post said?

I don't know where it is at. But I guess you could do like me and just print off the actual workout or write it into your training log yourself.

Sorry I can't be more helpful!

[jrb1980]

Anyone set this up as supersets?

[MJTWO]

If anyone is interested, here is the 3 Day Full Body Workout that I made to hole punch and keep in my notebook when I was doing it. Hope it saves someone some time and they look cool at the gym. :p

Where'd it go?
Is it still possible to print this template?
Loved this program and wanted to send it to a friend.

[donnajo]

I don't understand how this could work for cutting AND bulking. Shouldn't there be a greater workload for bulking? Would the given variations of rep/set schemes come into play for a bulk? Or, does it matter? :unsure:


I have this same question. Anyone?

[Hoochiemomma]

Where'd it go?
Is it still possible to print this template?
Loved this program and wanted to send it to a friend.

I have this in Excel, if I can figure out how to post it, I will:wavesad:

[Gary]

Great workout!

[Mols]

I have this in Excel, if I can figure out how to post it, I will:wavesad:


Did you figure out how to post it? Id LOVE it also!

[Hoochiemomma]

:o

Edit to say: oh for fvcks sake, that's too small.

[PerfectAnjail]

I have it as well, if anyone wants it PM me your email addy

[Tricia]

Would someone please send it to me ... Perfect your mail box is full:unsure:


Tricia2587@aol.com


Thank you ...T

[matt]

If anyone wants to send it to me, I can host it so you can download it from this thread.

[Phoenix59]

I tried PA, too. Please forward to me at la_de_chon@yahoo.com

[Hoochiemomma]

Tricia and P59 - I emailed the spreadsheet to you two

Good luck!:lifter:

[Phoenix59]

Tricia and P59 - I emailed the spreadsheet to you two

Good luck!:lifter:

Thank you!

[Tricia]

Tricia and P59 - I emailed the spreadsheet to you two

Good luck!:lifter:

Thank you!:lifter:

Tricia

[Tricia]

I don't understand how this could work for cutting AND bulking. Shouldn't there be a greater workload for bulking? Would the given variations of rep/set schemes come into play for a bulk? Or, does it matter? :unsure:


I know I saw a thread where Thunder modified the program for fat loss, he eliminated some of the high reps on certain days, (I think:scratch: ) but I can't seem to find it ... it could have been back on O2, anyone?

Tricia

[Steve]

Essentially, it's a volume of work that could be devoted to what you need in a calorie deficit - ie, maintenance of the protein content in the muscle.

Metabolic adaptations shouldn't really be a strength-training priority during a diet; that's what cardio is for.

Though, if you truly wanted to do depletion work....I wouldn't necessarily see a problem with it, just that it could potentially impact the strength work if not synchronized with the diet. Depleting glycogen isn't the best of ideas on a diet when you're trying to retain protein, unless it's done in a way to minimize the impact (see UD2.0); AMPK is a vengeful bastard. Seeing as the strength work is the priority, you can see where problems may crop up.

So Matt, do you believe that the parameters of this 3 day FB split are not "ideal" for someone trying to lose weight (i.e. in a caloric deficit)? Too much high rep work?

[quickie]

So Matt, do you believe that the parameters of this 3 day FB split are not "ideal" for someone trying to lose weight (i.e. in a caloric deficit)? Too much high rep work?

How is 5 X 5 high rep? The major problem on a diet would be the volume and the effort it would take to push poundages while in a deficit. Of course you could just go real slow. The submax run ups might not be ideal on a diet either.

[Sportsgirl]

How is 5 X 5 high rep? The major problem on a diet would be the volume and the effort it would take to push poundages while in a deficit. Of course you could just go real slow. The submax run ups might not be ideal on a diet either.

Huh? Isn't he talking about the FB routine on page 1/2 which isn't 5x5?

[Steve]

How is 5 X 5 high rep? The major problem on a diet would be the volume and the effort it would take to push poundages while in a deficit. Of course you could just go real slow. The submax run ups might not be ideal on a diet either.

Hmmmm, not quite sure I understand ya. I am talking about the workout located at the beginning of this thread. I never said 5x5 was considered high rep. :wink:

[quickie]

Huh? Isn't he talking about the FB routine on page 1/2 which isn't 5x5?

:doh:

Nevermind me.:oops: :wave:

[Steve]

:doh:

Nevermind me.:oops: :wave:

:thumb:

I assume you were thinking this was the 5x5 stickie.

[quickie]

:thumb:

I assume you were thinking this was the 5x5 stickie.

Yes, I was.:wavesad:

[PowerManDL]

So Matt, do you believe that the parameters of this 3 day FB split are not "ideal" for someone trying to lose weight (i.e. in a caloric deficit)? Too much high rep work?

I don't think it's ideal for anyone necessarily. I'm of the group that feels that the majority of weight training, period, should be heavy 4-6 rep work. I'm not going to be a fan of anything that focuses entire blocks (be it days, weeks, whatever) on high-rep stuff to the exclusion of that essential heavy work.

I just feel that the situation is even more pronounced while dieting.

Muscle size is a function of competing anabolic and catabolic signals. In the loading sweet-spot (~60-85% 1RM), you tend to notice that there's a continuum of sorts related to accumulated volume:

Detraining ---> Maintenance ---> Fitness Gain

ATROPHY > hypertrophy ---> Atrophy = Hypertrophy ---> atrophy < HYPERTROPHY

Since you need a given energy level to spur on the fitness gains, it's typically a good idea for you to be very conservative with where you put your volume. Since high-load stuff gives you the most bang for the buck, that's where I like to see it go. If the sarcoplasmic/metabolic-support crap needs maintaining, throw in a back-off set after that heavy work (or a back-off exercise, depending).

There's also a matter of competing motor targets. Doing a heavy set of 5 will tend to hit more of the tension-producing contractile elements than say a heavy set of 15, which will tend to be more metabolically-taxing. Again, if the purpose is glycogen depletion or local lactate tolerance, I have no problems with it; but for strength training, I don't agree with it. Minimizing the fatigue-impact on the muscle is a lot more important when on limited energy. You need just enough stressor on the muscle to minimize the atrophy signaling, not so much to necessarily signal hypertrophy (although partitioning effects are likely related to this, too much adaptive signaling without cals to support it isn't a good idea).

In fact, in cases of extreme dieting, I'll even recommend that you stick to the 1-3 rep range just because of the stress impact that 5s can cause.

[fitmommy]

I know I saw a thread where Thunder modified the program for fat loss, he eliminated some of the high reps on certain days, (I think:scratch: ) but I can't seem to find it ... it could have been back on O2, anyone?

Tricia

Anyone?? I have a friend who is just starting to work out ( the new yr and all) she wants to lose some weight for her wedding this spring:blah:

Anyway, she is dieting, I told her I would print out this FBW for her. But now I'm reading about proper loads and all...:confused: ... Is the original w/o still holding true for one in fat loss mode?

I would like to see the modification, is modification needed?

I really don't want to scare her by telling her 3x3 etc. stuff, she "doesn't want to get bulky" :shrug: :lol3: I think something more gentle is needed here.

[PowerManDL]

3x3 won't get anyone bulking. The volume's too low to see any appreciable mass gains. In all but a newbie, that is.

Newbie gains, however, will unfortunately be unavoidable with any strength training protocol; that's something she'll just have to accept. The consolation will be that any weight gain will be a positive thing, as it's muscle tissue. But the situation being what it is, there's good odds she'll flip out and quit because it made the scale go up.

I don't get the dichotomy; people want the benefits of strength training, yet freak out when it does what it's supposed to do: develop the muscle. What does she expect is going to happen when she incorporates a protocol that by definition causes development of muscle?

My thoughts on the matter remain the same: for the first few weeks, spend time learning the basic exercises, little if any weight and focus on developing form. After this break-in period, shift to the tried and true: a handful of sets of 5 on a the basic barbell exercises, 3x/week, with the aim of adding weight each session.

I can't think of any reason why, assuming diet is where it needs to be, that she wouldn't see very favorable results from that.

[fitmommy]

Thankyou very much! this is great basic info to have.

[wtlgn]

If anyone wants to send it to me, I can host it so you can download it from this thread.

Did anyone send you the excel spreadsheet to download from this thread? I don't see it.

[Andy]

3x3 won't get anyone bulking. The volume's too low to see any appreciable mass gains. In all but a newbie, that is.

Newbie gains, however, will unfortunately be unavoidable with any strength training protocol; that's something she'll just have to accept. The consolation will be that any weight gain will be a positive thing, as it's muscle tissue. But the situation being what it is, there's good odds she'll flip out and quit because it made the scale go up.

I don't get the dichotomy; people want the benefits of strength training, yet freak out when it does what it's supposed to do: develop the muscle. What does she expect is going to happen when she incorporates a protocol that by definition causes development of muscle?

My thoughts on the matter remain the same: for the first few weeks, spend time learning the basic exercises, little if any weight and focus on developing form. After this break-in period, shift to the tried and true: a handful of sets of 5 on a the basic barbell exercises, 3x/week, with the aim of adding weight each session.

I can't think of any reason why, assuming diet is where it needs to be, that she wouldn't see very favorable results from that.

Good information...maybe you can share a few of your thoughts with me in my situation.

I'm a 33 year old male, 5'7 1/2". I'm actually in a metabolic workout (starting weight: 178, BF of 15%) which involves supersetting 3 x/week with HIIT on a treadmill post workout. Normally on a workout day, I hover around 3-4 pair of supersets (A,B,C..sometimes D). My goals are really to lose a few more body fat and get that ripped effect if you will. I'm on a 12 week program and just 3 weeks in...I weighed myself after 19 days (yes, Erik I re-weighed) - on an empty stomach and got a reading of 174.6 lbs. That's 3.4 lbs already in less than 3 weeks. I'm pretty sure it's body fat because I'm gaining some pretty decent muscles at this point.

Like her..I always had that mind set of seeing the numbers on the scale go down but I got it all mixed up til recently. I've become more conscious with the BF%'s going down and so a .5% body fat decrease with a 3.4 lbs weight loss seem right?

[Bubblicious]

Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
RDLs
Barbell Rows

All done for 3-4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Pull Throughs
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2-3x12 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Incline Dumbbell Rows
Dumbbell Split Squats
SHELC
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x8 w/ 60s rest


I should know, but I'm drawing a complete blank - what is SHELC? I'm trying to modify this setup to fit what I can do. Also, does anyone have any ideas on what I could replace the Incline Rows with? I can't be on my belly..

ETA I found it :) Still cant figure out what to replace incline rows wih..

[smuggie]

I should know, but I'm drawing a complete blank - what is SHELC? I'm trying to modify this setup to fit what I can do. Also, does anyone have any ideas on what I could replace the Incline Rows with? I can't be on my belly..

ETA I found it :) Still cant figure out what to replace incline rows wih..
How about regular bentover DB rows?

[Bubblicious]

How about regular bentover DB rows?

Yah, that's what I ended up doing. Everyone will have to excuse me for a while as my brain is out :lol:

[fluteangel]

Would you say this set up is better for a beginner wanting to gain all over muscle, or would a 5x5 work better? Honestly, I'm leaning towards a 5x5. However, I'm wondering if these loading parameters would be enough to gain muscle? Eating in a surplus, but would better muscle gain be attained by 5x5, this one, or some other program?

Another question to throw in the mix: if someone is training long distance i.e. they don't have a trainer with them every workout, just getting the program over the internet or whatnot, I can see how the 5x5 might not be optimal for muscle gain because form is so important. Would this be a good workout for muscle gain in that instance or is there really anything better in that case?

[Original Kloe®]

Would you say this set up is better for a beginner wanting to gain all over muscle, or would a 5x5 work better? Honestly, I'm leaning towards a 5x5. However, I'm wondering if these loading parameters would be enough to gain muscle? Eating in a surplus, but would better muscle gain be attained by 5x5, this one, or some other program?

Another question to throw in the mix: if someone is training long distance i.e. they don't have a trainer with them every workout, just getting the program over the internet or whatnot, I can see how the 5x5 might not be optimal for muscle gain because form is so important. Would this be a good workout for muscle gain in that instance or is there really anything better in that case?


Newbie + lifting + caloric surplus = muscle gains.

It doesn't take a 5x5.

[jaleena]

A 5x5 is a great building volume for a more experienced lifter. Since newer lifters don't/can't recruit as much of their muscle fibers, a routine that allows for both practice in a low-ish rep range and work in a higher one is probably optimal. And definitely still works for experienced lifters when they know how to adapt the parameters, but I don't think a new lifter can really do well with a 5x5. I started lifting with pretty good body awareness from fight training, and I wouldn't have been truly ready because I didn't know the movement patterns.

[fluteangel]

A 5x5 is a great building volume for a more experienced lifter. Since newer lifters don't/can't recruit as much of their muscle fibers, a routine that allows for both practice in a low-ish rep range and work in a higher one is probably optimal. And definitely still works for experienced lifters when they know how to adapt the parameters, but I don't think a new lifter can really do well with a 5x5. I started lifting with pretty good body awareness from fight training, and I wouldn't have been truly ready because I didn't know the movement patterns.

Makes sense to me, would y'all agree, disagree? I'm also curious, when you guys started training and learning this stuff yourselves, what programs did YOU use? Honestly, I started in high school, with almost no guidance just doing 3x10 on machines after volleyball/tennis practice. No idea what I was doing, but loved it! When I got to college, I took my guidance from Muscle and Fitness Hers and M&F when I got to grad school - I had no idea to look anywhere else. It obviously got me somewhere, though not as far as I could go in the amount of time I was lifting. 3x8 on arm day won't grow a lot after 10 years of this stuff, you know? I wish then I'd known where to look!

What would be some resources to where you would point newbies thirsting for knowledge? I come across them all the time at VS and want to give good direction.

[jaleena]

When I started, I knew I was lost, so I got a couple programs from Erik. I haven't done an actual routine pretty much since my first few months, but it was probably the best thing I possibly could have done for learning the basics of balancing movements, and how my body responds. Certainly would have been a nightmare if I'd just started out by turning loose on myself in the gym :lol: And the stuff in the magazines is universally too high-rep for me to tolerate--without the heavy component, there wasn't a chance I'd show up. Plus I wasn't going to do much in the way of machine work--being little, they tend to just piss me off for not adjusting right.
He also gave me a diet that showed me that I do not, in fact, have IBS, it was just the way of eating I'd picked up from the health gurus that was messing me up :lol:

[ncfarris26]

Ok I am confused :confused:

On the very first post it shows this:
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
RDLs
Barbell Rows

All done for 3-4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Pull Throughs
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2-3x12 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Incline Dumbbell Rows
Dumbbell Split Squats
SHELC
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x8 w/ 60s rest


Then on the 4th page someone did a quote reply and it says this:
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest


Which one should I be doing? Does it matter? Is one just a slight variation of the other? :scratch:

[Blondell]

The first post is an updated version. Both work just fine. :)

[ncfarris26]

The first post is an updated version. Both work just fine. :)

Awesome thank you :)

[epona]

are the barbell rows in this routine upright to work the delts or are they bent rows, or does it matter?

[Inatic]

are the barbell rows in this routine upright to work the delts or are they bent rows, or does it matter?

bent.

[ncfarris26]

SN: It's funny to see posts from when I first joined. Man I was a lost little soul. :sad: :lol:

[smuggie]

SN: It's funny to see posts from when I first joined. Man I was a lost little soul. :sad: :lol:

How many times do I have to tell you? Nothing has changed since then. :lol:

[ncfarris26]

How many times do I have to tell you? Nothing has changed since then. :lol::p

[shimmeringpearl]

SN: It's funny to see posts from when I first joined. Man I was a lost little soul. :sad: :lol:

It was a relief for me to see how lost you were bc I am just as lost if not more so! Thanks for keeping it real .

[Trapezoid]

What does SHELC stand for under day #3 below?



Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
RDLs
Barbell Rows

All done for 3-4x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Pull Throughs
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2-3x12 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Incline Dumbbell Rows
Dumbbell Split Squats
SHELC
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x8 w/ 60s rest


Then on the 4th page someone did a quote reply and it says this:
Day 1
Full Squats
Flat Bench Press
Conventional Deadlifts
Standing Military Press
Pull Ups or Lat Pulldowns

All done for 5x6 w/ 120s rest

Day 2
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Flat Dumbbell Press
Seated Cable Rows
Incline Hammer Curls
Lying Triceps Extensions

All done for 2x15 w/ 30s rest

Day 3
Incline Dumbbell Press
Barbell Rows (underhand)
Dumbbell Split Squats
Reverse Lunges
Standing Dumbbell Press
Lat Pulldowns (underhand)

All done for 3x10 w/ 60s rest

[Inatic]

SHELC=Suppine Hip Extension Leg Curl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o2ArSrZklM

[Trapezoid]

Thanks! One more question - is 3 days in a row and then 1 day off?

[Kelly Davis]

:blink:Not to throw a wrench in here, but what about a workout for someone who wants to trim down the muscle a bit. I still need fat loss as well. Can you do this together or should I focus on one of these goals at a time? Does anyone have any WO/diet suggestions?:weights2:

[fluteangel]

Thanks! One more question - is 3 days in a row and then 1 day off?
Ideally, you would not do a full body routine two days in a row, much less three, though it COULD be done with the way this second rep/set scheme. With 3 day plans, you are generally looking for 1-2 days off in between. Much better recovery.


:blink:Not to throw a wrench in here, but what about a workout for someone who wants to trim down the muscle a bit. I still need fat loss as well. Can you do this together or should I focus on one of these goals at a time? Does anyone have any WO/diet suggestions?:weights2:

First question, how can you be sure you need to lose muscle? VERY seldom is that actually the case. Regardless, if you still have fat to lose, I would lose the fat first, because depending on how long you are in a deficit (and how agressive, etc.) you could also lose a little LBM -not much mind you, but some. When you lose the fat, then you can really see what you are dealing with and see if you truly need to lose muscle or not.

BTW, I'm wondering if I know you because your name sounds so familiar and you are from TN - me too! I'm originally from Columbia.

[Kelly Davis]

Yes, I'm from Murfreesboro (via Franklin). And to calrify about losing muscle: 4 wks. post show so I know there is fat to be lost. However, 6/2010 I weighed in at 122 (for bodybuilding show). By 11/2010 I weighed in at 137 for a show (very lean). The "supplements" were quite helpful in adding muscle, but I now feel TOO big. I'm 5'3", 45 yrs old, and 149 lbs. I know the scale should not come into play (I'm working on that!!) but have zero desire to compete again. The traditional thinking is high rep/low weight and LOTS of cardio. I'm so over cardio!! LOL Any advice is welcome!

[*Richelle*]

I did day one of this full body routine today. Man did it feel good! I missed lifting heavy :shakeithappy:

I had never done RDL's before, only SDL's, but I liked them. Also, I was really happy to find even though I had been forced into a few months of non training, I jumped back in and I was lifting the same weights I left off with! Hooray!!!