View Full Version : Food Addiction ...
Thunder, I'm academic - I know what junk gets published, especially in psychiatry. At best, it's a pseudo-science and this leaves room for all sorts of **** to get published.
You'll notice that I directed members who believe that they have a serious problem to some books and to find a professional who specializes in eating disorders. But that I've given no advice myself on how to recover from one.
I've only stated that I believe that your advice of abstaining is, in my experience, not how people recover from such problems. You are a fitness professional. Stick to giving out advice on how to prep for contests. Or at least consider the possibility that the advice that you are giving out might do more harm than good. Even if you are right, and however unlikely I think that is, I am willing to consider that it's possible, you are still not qualified to make the distinction for people.
Did you really think that you could start a thread titled "Food Addiction," list all of the indicators of BN (and, I might add, not even attempt to make a distinction (at least at first)) and not expect people to talk about EDs? That is either silly or stupid. I'm not sure which.
I guess I must be missing something :scratch: I have been following this thread and have not thought for a minute that Erik (Thunder) has been giving advice on this. He is simply offering the research out there and then talk about it. IT IS A DISCUSSION!!!!
And I stand by the statement that it's both wrong and dangerous to compare an ED with alcoholism or drug addiction. You can quit drinking. You can't quit eating. You say, just remove the trigger food. So, then, I suppose these people should stop going to office parties, weddings, or any place were people congregate and eat refined carbs?
And what does the alcoholic do in these situations? Weddings? Alcohol. Office parties? Alcohol. Places where people congregate and eat refined carbs? Alcohol. Summer BBQs? Alcohol.
What, they can't go either?
Thunder, I'm academic - I know what junk gets published, especially in psychiatry. At best, it's a pseudo-science and this leaves room for all sorts of **** to get published.
You'll notice that I directed members who believe that they have a serious problem to some books and to find a professional who specializes in eating disorders. But that I've given no advice myself on how to recover from one.
I've only stated that I believe that your advice of abstaining is, in my experience, not how people recover from such problems. You are a fitness professional. Stick to giving out advice on how to prep for contests. Or at least consider the possibility that the advice that you are giving out might do more harm than good. Even if you are right, and however unlikely I think that is, I am willing to consider that it's possible, you are still not qualified to make the distinction for people.
Did you really think that you could start a thread titled "Food Addiction," list all of the indicators of BN (and, I might add, not even attempt to make a distinction (at least at first)) and not expect people to talk about EDs? That is either silly or stupid. I'm not sure which.
I think Erik has mentioned several times, that he is just sharing information he has found while researching the phenomenon of food addiction and not giving advice. I also believe he was sharing information on the physiological occurrences surrounding this phenomenon which is different from the psychological aspects which is a whole different ballgame. Finally, while you have mentioned that Erik isn't qualified to make the distinction, please provide us with your qualifications other than being "in academics" and "from your experience". I think it is sad that you have found it necessary to turn this thread into a personal battle instead of a sharing of information among intelligent, knowledge-seeking individuals as it was meant to be.
Just my opinion.
I think Erik has mentioned several times, that he is just sharing information he has found while researching the phenomenon of food addiction and not giving advice. I also believe he was sharing information on the physiological occurrences surrounding this phenomenon which is different from the psychological aspects which is a whole different ballgame. Finally, while you have mentioned that Erik isn't qualified to make the distinction, please provide us with your qualifications other than being "in academics" and "from your experience". I think it is sad that you have found it necessary to turn this thread into a personal battle instead of a sharing of information among intelligent, knowledge-seeking individuals as it was meant to be.
Just my opinion.
:yeahthat: green for you!!
Noel Clark
09-07-2007, 01:22 AM
I think Erik has mentioned several times, that he is just sharing information he has found while researching the phenomenon of food addiction and not giving advice. I also believe he was sharing information on the physiological occurrences surrounding this phenomenon which is different from the psychological aspects which is a whole different ballgame. Finally, while you have mentioned that Erik isn't qualified to make the distinction, please provide us with your qualifications other than being "in academics" and "from your experience". I think it is sad that you have found it necessary to turn this thread into a personal battle instead of a sharing of information among intelligent, knowledge-seeking individuals as it was meant to be.
Just my opinion.
:ditto:
I bet they change that classification in years to come. Or at least from my limited understanding, (admittedly), they should at least investigate.
__________________
I personally made the mistake of thinking blah, get some self control you weak-willed 'person' (). However, educating myself on all this stuff? It's definitely not always about that
According to what I've read,
You know, I used to really really blunt back in the day, but I've cooled off. I've been keeping my cool on this one, but after reading this post, I see I don't really have to anymore.
Thunder, I'm academic - I know what junk gets published, especially in psychiatry. At best, it's a pseudo-science and this leaves room for all sorts of **** to get published.
And your point? So you're an academic. Have you read the research I referred to? Is every single study published, junk? You don't have a position to comment on research that you haven't read.
That's like me hearing about some nutrition study and saying oh that study is crap .... knowing nothing about the study, and having not read it myself. Why? Because I've read other crap studies?
Yay for academics. There's more than one.
You'll notice that I directed members who believe that they have a serious problem to some books and to find a professional who specializes in eating disorders. But that I've given no advice myself on how to recover from one.
Hello? There's been more than one post recommending people to get help if anything they read in this thread stops and makes them have some cause for concern. And I just posted two resources people could read.
I've only stated that I believe that your advice of abstaining is, in my experience, not how people recover from such problems.
And your experience is the be all, end all? Like I said, go read some of Kay Sheppard's stuff just as one example (assuming you're open minded). She's a recovering food addict herself, plus is a licensed mental health counsellor and certified eating disorder specialist. She seems 'qualified' both in qualifications and experiences. More than probably most on this thread.
Do you read everything before you post your opinions? Did you see Noel's post talking about no advice being given out here? Or did you skip that post? Did you read my last one where I said the same? Or did you skip that one too?
You might be an academic but your reading comprehension seems to suck. Either that, or it's selective.
You are a fitness professional. Stick to giving out advice on how to prep for contests.
:blink: What I really want to say here, I won't.
Or at least consider the possibility that the advice that you are giving out might do more harm than good.
READ BEFORE YOU POST!!
Even if you are right, and however unlikely I think that is, I am willing to consider that it's possible, you are still not qualified to make the distinction for people.
Hello? Do you read everything before you decide to post? :wth:
When did i ever say anything about anything being my opinion? Read some of the other responses since your post. Seems it's been pretty clear that I've not given advice. I've said it myself even.
And if you can, direct me to where I made a distinction for anyone. Please and thank you.
Did you really think that you could start a thread titled "Food Addiction," list all of the indicators of BN (and, I might add, not even attempt to make a distinction (at least at first)) and not expect people to talk about EDs? That is either silly or stupid. I'm not sure which.
Maybe I'm both silly and stupid. :) But at least I'm objective, willing to admit I don't know everything and have been learning myself.
But again, since you said I said that EATING DISORDERS are the same as alcohol and drug addiction ... address that one too. Where did I say that?
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 01:41 AM
Wowsers...is it a full moon tonight? :lol3:
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 01:46 AM
Maybe I'm both silly and stupid. :)
doubt THAT very much...why do we all come to you for advice? :pimpslap:
And :ditto: to what others said above, some people should read the whole thread before commenting....
Thunder, I'm academic - I know what junk gets published, especially in psychiatry. At best, it's a pseudo-science and this leaves room for all sorts of **** to get published.
You'll notice that I directed members who believe that they have a serious problem to some books and to find a professional who specializes in eating disorders. But that I've given no advice myself on how to recover from one.
I've only stated that I believe that your advice of abstaining is, in my experience, not how people recover from such problems. You are a fitness professional. Stick to giving out advice on how to prep for contests. Or at least consider the possibility that the advice that you are giving out might do more harm than good. Even if you are right, and however unlikely I think that is, I am willing to consider that it's possible, you are still not qualified to make the distinction for people.
Did you really think that you could start a thread titled "Food Addiction," list all of the indicators of BN (and, I might add, not even attempt to make a distinction (at least at first)) and not expect people to talk about EDs? That is either silly or stupid. I'm not sure which.
Umm I have one question.. does everyone eventually grow HUGE balls on this forum? Or only some!?:scratch: :lol:
As for silly and stupid. Saying something like this is silly and stupid. You can't read. Yeah, you sure told me.
As for LBF - I think Eric is probably pretty fed up with me by now, lol. I think he's handing out crappy advice over there on the subject and I pretty much told him so in no uncertain terms.
As for silly and stupid. Saying something like this is silly and stupid. You can't read.
As for LBF - I think Eric is probably pretty fed up with me by now, lol. I think he's handing out crappy advice over there on the subject and I pretty much told him so in no uncertain terms.
um isnt that eric with a K????
mich56
09-07-2007, 01:55 AM
Back to the topic. I have a question.
When does one know when to seek professional help? Okay, here it is - The reason I am asking is because I could be consided a food addict, however, I would not say any ED - no anorexia, bulimic tendencies (however, I have contemplated it :sad: but never done any of it ) etc. I am aware of my triggers (pizza, reg white pasta and sugar and refined carbs)...is it something that I can handle on my own? (perhaps some of the books that have been recommended in this thread) Or is it something that I should talk to my doc about? Right now I am just feeling a little confused :scratch:
Thanks for listening and advice in advance :)
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 01:57 AM
um isnt that eric with a K????
:lol3:
it'll be with a c if he steals all my baked goodies Saturday...:uhuh:
Brandi
09-07-2007, 01:57 AM
Back to the topic. I have a question.
When does one know when to seek professional help? Okay, here it is - The reason I am asking is because I could be consided a food addict, however, I would not say any ED - no anorexia, bulimic tendencies (however, I have contemplated it :sad: but never done any of it ) etc. I am aware of my triggers (pizza, reg white pasta and sugar and refined carbs)...is it something that I can handle on my own? (perhaps some of the books that have been recommended in this thread) Or is it something that I should talk to my doc about? Right now I am just feeling a little confused :headscratch:
Thanks for listening and advice in advance :)
I would definitely see someone versed in the food issues and ED recovery. What is the worst that could happen?
Noel Clark
09-07-2007, 01:59 AM
I would definitely see someone versed in the food issues and ED recovery. What is the worst that could happen?
:ditto:
It isn't something that you should have to decipher yourself
:hug:
mich56
09-07-2007, 01:59 AM
I would definitely see someone versed in the food issues and ED recovery. What is the worst that could happen?
Ya, thanks Brandi...right now it seems that I am having a hard admitting it to myself...so I have this thought is I saw someone for it then it was TRUE for me.
Again, by the definitions ....
If a food can set you off and is a trigger food for you to need to eat more of it ... well, that's one thing they say all food addicts have in common.
And sugar, is the most common one.
And you just hit it on what I said in the craving thread. Cravings only come AFTER a food is introduced. Not before. It's another indicator.
Best course of action for to avoid this is to steer clear of whatever your trigger is.
I guess this doesn't qualify as advice then?
I don't have a personal beef with you. However, I do think you are giving out lousy advice. And clearly, from the quote, you are not just disseminating information for the good of your board. The women who come here respect you and come here for advice. Are you telling me that this isn't advice from you to them? Really?
I guess this doesn't qualify as advice then?
Are you high? Again, do you read just the sentences you want to read?
I'm going to try capitals ...
THAT'S NOT MY ADVICE. IT WAS PRECISELY WHAT THE RESOURCE I WAS READING SUGGESTED TO DO IN THAT CASE. I passed on the information - a recommendation by a person far more qualified than you or anyone else on this thread.
NOT MY OPINION. NOT MY UNQUALIFIED, UNEDUCATED OPINION. After all, I'm just a fitness professional.
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 02:08 AM
I guess she didn't read the start of your post...
Again, by the definitions ....
by the definitions...not yours...
I guess this doesn't qualify as advice then?
I don't have a personal beef with you. However, I do think you are giving out lousy advice.
Holy $*%&
Did you just log back into this board, read maybe one post, or perhaps none, and then decide to post again?
Seriously. Do you read anyone else's responses?
This is absolutely ridiculous.
Read everything before you make yourself look stupid.
And clearly, from the quote, you are not just disseminating information for the good of your board. The women who come here respect you and come here for advice. Are you telling me that this isn't advice from you to them? Really?
Really? Are you telling me that you know my motives? If I'm not disseminating information for the good of my board, what am I doing? Sure seemed to work out to the good of my board, didn't it?
Wait, never mind. Why am I even asking you questions? You've avoided them all from previous posts.
Are you telling me that if I say I'm not giving advice in my own posts, and you say I am, that you're right? Even though it seems others disagree with you as well?
Noel Clark
09-07-2007, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Thunder
Again, by the definitions ....
If a food can set you off and is a trigger food for you to need to eat more of it ... well, that's one thing they say all food addicts have in common.
And sugar, is the most common one.
And you just hit it on what I said in the craving thread. Cravings only come AFTER a food is introduced. Not before. It's another indicator.
Best course of action for to avoid this is to steer clear of whatever your trigger is................
vtchick
09-07-2007, 02:11 AM
After all, I'm just a fitness professional.
A damn good one at that :wink: ...And you are far more than just a fitness professional...thankfully the large majority of those of us here appreciate your information and discussions, and are intelligent enough to take that information, and make informed decisions on our own.
mich56
09-07-2007, 02:12 AM
:ditto:
It isn't something that you should have to decipher yourself
:hug:
Thanks Noel!! And yes it isn't something that I should decipher myself.
A damn good one at that :wink: ...And you are far more than just a fitness professional...thankfully the large majority of those of us here appreciate your information and discussions, and are intelligent enough to take that information, and make informed decisions on our own.
you forgot to say A "hot" one at that!!:flirty:
And your experience is the be all, end all? Like I said, go read some of Kay Sheppard's stuff just as one example (assuming you're open minded). She's a recovering food addict herself, plus is a licensed mental health counsellor and certified eating disorder specialist. She seems 'qualified' both in qualifications and experiences. More than probably most on this thread.
I never said my experience was the end all be all. I was simply qualifying my statement. Do you have any experience with women and EDs? Have you sat in a room full of women with EDs or Food Addiction? Do you have any experience at all? Just curious.
But again, since you said I said that EATING DISORDERS are the same as alcohol and drug addiction ... address that one too. Where did I say that?
I did not say that you said that EDs are the same as alcohol and drug addiction. I said that you compared the two - you made the analogy - and you did. Must I go find that post too?
Apparently I can't read and you can't remember what you wrote.
vtchick
09-07-2007, 02:14 AM
you forgot to say A "hot" one at that!!:flirty:
Well that's a given :naughty: especially with that new avi....WHOA! :flirty:
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:21 AM
Ya, thanks Brandi...right now it seems that I am having a hard admitting it to myself...so I have this thought is I saw someone for it then it was TRUE for me.
Sorry to interrupt the fight but...
Yeah, Mich, it was really hard to admit to myself when I figured out I had an ED. I told myself for years I just had a "nervous stomach and big bones." :sad:
I never said my experience was the end all be all. I was simply qualifying my statement. Do you have any experience with women and EDs? Have you sat in a room full of women with EDs or Food Addiction? Do you have any experience at all? Just curious.
I did not say that you said that EDs are the same as alcohol and drug addiction. I said that you compared the two - you made the analogy - and you did. Must I go find that post too?
Apparently I can't read and you can't remember what you wrote.
If you would read past the first sentence in what you have just quoted, he has just given you ONE of the sources he has been deriving the information from. Again, sources he has been deriving the information from. I also recall posing the question in my last post to you about your qualifications. You still have neglected to share those with us. Then again, you most likely did not even READ my last post, much less respond to it, as this is about your personal beef with Erik, who is "just a fitness professional". So please enlighten...your qualifications are....????
mich56
09-07-2007, 02:23 AM
Sorry to interrupt the fight but...
Yeah, Mich, it was really hard to admit to myself when I figured out I had an ED. I told myself for years I just had a "nervous stomach and big bones." :sad:
That sounds like me! HAHA...although I do have a nervous stomach (no lax's or purging etc) and I do have big bones HEHE
:hearts:
I am going to see the doc tomorrow. I am going to ask my hubby to stay home in the morn so that I don't have to take the kiddos with me. Thanks again!
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:25 AM
:hug: Feel free to PM me anytime!
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 02:25 AM
I never said my experience was the end all be all. I was simply qualifying my statement. Do you have any experience with women and EDs? Have you sat in a room full of women with EDs or Food Addiction? Do you have any experience at all? Just curious.
I did not say that you said that EDs are the same as alcohol and drug addiction. I said that you compared the two - you made the analogy - and you did. Must I go find that post too?
Apparently I can't read and you can't remember what you wrote.
:popcorn:...waiting for the said post...may take a while to find something that doesn't exist....
strongchick
09-07-2007, 02:25 AM
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful. Personally I'm not a fan of the AA/OA/NA abstinent model as I don't think it addresses the real issues, but for some people it does work.
And to answer the question as to when to know if you need help even if you don't meet criteria for a full ED...if your own issues are getting in the way of how you'd like to live, that is reason enough to see someone. You don't have to meet full criteria for it to get in the way of your life. There are also numerous self-help books (Intuitive Eating is my favorite) that can be beneficial.
donnajo
09-07-2007, 02:25 AM
I never said my experience was the end all be all. I was simply qualifying my statement. Do you have any experience with women and EDs? Have you sat in a room full of women with EDs or Food Addiction? Do you have any experience at all? Just curious.
I did not say that you said that EDs are the same as alcohol and drug addiction. I said that you compared the two - you made the analogy - and you did. Must I go find that post too?
Apparently I can't read and you can't remember what you wrote.
You know, honostly, I think there are people here really trying to discuss their eating issues and everyone is trying to help each other. There is no bad advice being given. Just information. We are not morons who can't comprehend what we read(well maybe some of us are, but that is for another thread) :lol: anyway, maybe you should bring this debate to a separate thread and let the people who want to discuss food addiction do so here as was intended.
Has anyone noticed Mich,Brandi , and noel trying to be productive around the argument?
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:25 AM
Sarah, you are a babe. :love:
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:28 AM
Has anyone noticed Mich,Brandi , and noel trying to be productive around the argument?
I'm persistent. :lol:
It sounds shitty, but I'm more interesting in my own recovery than reading flames. There is more than one road to recovery, so if there is research to read and studies to show my doc, than that's what I'm after.
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful.
Quoting ...
You gave a definition of food addiction. How is a plan for dealing with food addition part of the definition of it? The last sentence in your previous post that I quoted was ADVICE. Try to back pedal all you want - but I'll call a spade a spade.
EXACTLY
By definition!
Abstinence! Abstinence!
Consider adjusting what your off plan eating is like. Otherwise you're always going to have this issue. You just said how great you feel when you're on and you don't eat your trigger foods. And how crappy you feel when you do.
More advice about how to deal with something that you gave a definition for.
Again - you define the addiction - and then give advice about how to handle it.
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful. Personally I'm not a fan of the AA/OA/NA abstinent model as I don't think it addresses the real issues, but for some people it does work.
And to answer the question as to when to know if you need help even if you don't meet criteria for a full ED...if your own issues are getting in the way of how you'd like to live, that is reason enough to see someone. You don't have to meet full criteria for it to get in the way of your life. There are also numerous self-help books (Intuitive Eating is my favorite) that can be beneficial.
Thanks for the information and for the book suggestion. Your experience is a valuable resource for those of us seeking to learn more!
donnajo
09-07-2007, 02:31 AM
I'm persistent. :lol:
It sounds shitty, but I'm more interesting in my own recovery than reading flames. There is more than one road to recovery, so if there is research to read and studies to show my doc, than that's what I'm after.
exactly. Information and knowledge are your best weapon against anything. I don't have a food addiction but I am glad that this thread was started to broach it for the people who do. If it did anything it brought people out who might have been too afraid to talk about it on their own.
And :hug: Brandi! I read in your journal about that and I think you are on the right road. You are doing something about it.
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful.
Quoting again.
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:32 AM
You gave a definition of food addiction. How is a plan for dealing with food addition part of the definition of it? The last sentence in your previous post that I quoted was ADVICE. Try to back pedal all you want - but I'll call a spade a spade.
More advice about how to deal with something that you gave a definition for.
Again - you define the addiction - and then give advice about how to handle it.
However, that advice was to a very close friend/client of Erik's. (As I recall.) So, there may be more back story than what we have. IE, from her bi-weekly reports, etc.
mich56
09-07-2007, 02:33 AM
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful. Personally I'm not a fan of the AA/OA/NA abstinent model as I don't think it addresses the real issues, but for some people it does work.
And to answer the question as to when to know if you need help even if you don't meet criteria for a full ED...if your own issues are getting in the way of how you'd like to live, that is reason enough to see someone. You don't have to meet full criteria for it to get in the way of your life. There are also numerous self-help books (Intuitive Eating is my favorite) that can be beneficial.
Thanks!!
Brandy
09-07-2007, 02:33 AM
I'm with Brandi-trying to figure out my own issues.
But holy hell. :sad:
Is every asshat posting tonight? Is it 4-20?
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:34 AM
exactly. Information and knowledge are your best weapon against anything. I don't have a food addiction but I am glad that this thread was started to broach it for the people who do. If it did anything it brought people out who might have been too afraid to talk about it on their own.
And :hug: Brandi! I read in your journal about that and I think you are on the right road. You are doing something about it.
:love:
I just think this thread can be a powerful tool for people especially in this lifestyle. I thought I was a weak-willed freak show among all these muscled Greek goddesses. I think many people have been able to see that they can relate to someone, or may have an issue, when they may have thought they just didn't have willpower before.
mich56
09-07-2007, 02:35 AM
exactly. Information and knowledge are your best weapon against anything. I don't have a food addiction but I am glad that this thread was started to broach it for the people who do. If it did anything it brought people out who might have been too afraid to talk about it on their own. And :hug: Brandi! I read in your journal about that and I think you are on the right road. You are doing something about it.
Or those who didn't think that they really had a problem :blush:
Blondell
09-07-2007, 02:36 AM
Is it 4-20?
:funny: :funny:
I'd green ya, but I can't........but get back w/ me on 4-20 I may be able to then. :funny:
Noel Clark
09-07-2007, 02:37 AM
:love:
I just think this thread can be a powerful tool for people especially in this lifestyle. I thought I was a weak-willed freak show among all these muscled Greek goddesses. I think many people have been able to see that they can relate to someone, or may have an issue, when they may have thought they just didn't have willpower before.
OMG this is sooooooooooo true :kiss: That is what I have been trying to say
:clap:
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 02:37 AM
:love:
I just think this thread can be a powerful tool for people especially in this lifestyle. I thought I was a weak-willed freak show among all these muscled Greek goddesses. I think many people have been able to see that they can relate to someone, or may have an issue, when they may have thought they just didn't have willpower before.
:ditto: has made me feel a little more 'normal'...
Me too Brandi. Especially when you feel you are pretty strong-willed in other areas, it can be frustrating and scary to feel so weak when dealing with this issue.
Brandi
09-07-2007, 02:39 AM
Me too Brandi. Especially when you feel you are pretty strong-willed in other areas, it can be frustrating and scary to feel so weak when dealing with this issue.
Yes!
chelleashley
09-07-2007, 02:42 AM
Me too Brandi. Especially when you feel you are pretty strong-willed in other areas, it can be frustrating and scary to feel so weak when dealing with this issue.
Exactly....especially when it's something as silly as food....well that's what I tell myself when i feel that..."it's just stupid food...deal with it"...but it's so friggin' hard...
mich56
09-07-2007, 02:43 AM
I am right there with you ladies!!
donnajo
09-07-2007, 02:44 AM
:love:
I just think this thread can be a powerful tool for people especially in this lifestyle. I thought I was a weak-willed freak show among all these muscled Greek goddesses. I think many people have been able to see that they can relate to someone, or may have an issue, when they may have thought they just didn't have willpower before.
Exactly. I went the other direction and when I am under great stress I stop eating or rather ate sporadically . Which is just as bad because it screwed up my metabolism and slowed my progress. I was strugging with that for the last month and a half and even was a bit MIA cuz I tend to clam up. There were many people on this board that were very supportive and helped. This thread can be helpful to get people to be honost and open up just like you said so they can be better.
lcdoodle
09-07-2007, 02:44 AM
:love:
I just think this thread can be a powerful tool for people especially in this lifestyle. I thought I was a weak-willed freak show among all these muscled Greek goddesses. I think many people have been able to see that they can relate to someone, or may have an issue, when they may have thought they just didn't have willpower before.
I've been thinking this, but just didn't know how to say it!
Cindy Day
09-07-2007, 02:49 AM
I agree with Sarah that this thread took an unfortunate turn. :( I was too brief with my earlier green for JackieLeigh -- so, I'll expound a little. One thing I see contributing to the confusion is that some statements are being made with food issues in mind while others are being made with eating disorders in mind. It's all good disscusion and a touchy subject for some.
I don't view this thread as a right or wrong so much as people trying to help others and opening up and sharing personal struggles to both help themselves and benefit others.
Yes, there are some asshats out there with seemingly no fucking brains, but this topic is too important to too many to get derailed IMO.
strongchick
09-07-2007, 02:50 AM
I for one am grateful this thread was started, as I know many people have identified with a lot of what has been said and hopefully has made them think a little bit and possibly consider ways of helping themselves. There are SO many books out there that are helpful if you can't see a therapist.
Food issues are so complicated and so individual. Its impossible to say that one thing that works for one person will work for someone else. Abstinence, drugs, group support, individual support...try them all. If one doesn't work, try something else until you find something that works FOR YOU. But the take home message is: you don't have to live with the problem...there are solutions.
I know personally, what I found the most helpful in my own recovery was talking to people who had the same thoughts and problems. It helped tremendously to know I wasn't alone.
Blondell
09-07-2007, 02:52 AM
I think that ALL the post here hold some value for someone. Perhaps some people have misconceptions that were posted up and will read through this thread and realize that the way they've viewed things isn't accurate. I think the turns in the thread are what have made it a goodie. :D
Visionquester
09-07-2007, 03:36 AM
Back to the topic. I have a question.
When does one know when to seek professional help? Okay, here it is - The reason I am asking is because I could be consided a food addict, however, I would not say any ED - no anorexia, bulimic tendencies (however, I have contemplated it :sad: but never done any of it ) etc. I am aware of my triggers (pizza, reg white pasta and sugar and refined carbs)...is it something that I can handle on my own? (perhaps some of the books that have been recommended in this thread) Or is it something that I should talk to my doc about? Right now I am just feeling a little confused :scratch:
Thanks for listening and advice in advance :)
Page 135 of "Overcoming Binge Eating" has outlined 4 options on how to change.
1. Seek Professional Help
2. Seek Other Forms of Help (self-help group)
3. Use this Self-help program
4. Combine professional help with self-help
It also has a list titled, "When Self-help May Not Help"
1. You are underweight
2. You have a serious physical illness
3. You are pregnant
4. Your physical health is being affected by the binge eating problem
5. You are significantly depressed or demoralized
6. You have general problems with impulse control (alcohol, drugs, and repeated self-harm)
~C.
mich56
09-07-2007, 03:41 AM
Page 135 of "Overcoming Binge Eating" has outlined 4 options on how to change.
1. Seek Professional Help
2. Seek Other Forms of Help (self-help group)
3. Use this Self-help program
4. Combine professional help with self-help
It also has a list titled, "When Self-help May Not Help"
1. You are underweight
2. You have a serious physical illness
3. You are pregnant
4. Your physical health is being affected by the binge eating problem
5. You are significantly depressed or demoralized
6. You have general problems with impulse control (alcohol, drugs, and repeated self-harm)
~C.
Thanks Babe! I am going to talk to my doc in the morning and then I can make a few choices from that I assume. It seems that "self help" would be suffice at this time...however, I want to first determine if I have a problem medically with a food addiction (from all that has been outlined here, and what I have researched tonight on the subject, yes, I have an addiction)..I guess to a degree I want it confirmed or unconfirmed (wrong word, but you get the idea) on whether or not it is true for ME or not. Does that make sense? :shrug:
Visionquester
09-07-2007, 03:44 AM
I for one am grateful this thread was started, as I know many people have identified with a lot of what has been said and hopefully has made them think a little bit and possibly consider ways of helping themselves. There are SO many books out there that are helpful if you can't see a therapist.
Food issues are so complicated and so individual. Its impossible to say that one thing that works for one person will work for someone else. Abstinence, drugs, group support, individual support...try them all. If one doesn't work, try something else until you find something that works FOR YOU. But the take home message is: you don't have to live with the problem...there are solutions.
I know personally, what I found the most helpful in my own recovery was talking to people who had the same thoughts and problems. It helped tremendously to know I wasn't alone.
Nice post.
~C.
pillowtalk
09-07-2007, 06:04 AM
OMG! This is the BEST thread I have read ever!
Boy can I relate & this could not have come at a better time!
I truly believe it is a problem that has many layers to it...
I TOTALLY think it is a brain chemistry issue.
I recently read "Anatomy of A Food Addiction: The Brain Chemistry of Overeating"...Itis right on point with what you are saying.
Let me back up and share a bit of my history if you all don't mind...
1)Experimented with drugs & alcohol as a teen and adult (may have screwed up natural chemicals in brain.)
2)Ended up a full fledged alcoholic-used alcohol to self medicate from Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)...
3)Gave up drinking & smoking after being daignosed with serious health problems (liver) 4 years ago.
4)Replace addicting behaviour with compulsive exercising and cleantarded eating but rationalized that at least it was better than booze! (Transferred Addiction)
5)Got down to best body comp in May-looked & felt my best at 41 years of age.
6)Don't know why, but I self sabotaged by BINGE eating for the past 4 weeks consistantly late at night & have packed on 15 pounds just like that.
7)After the first bite all hell breaks loose....
8)After I have cleaned out all candy,pizza, cookies and chips in house (I got teenage boys), I then resort to slice after slice of white bread slathered in butter peanut butter and jelly and finally plain old hot dog buns....even dry top ramen noodles.
9)I am in a trance like state while doing it. I cannot stop even tho I KNOW it is wrong! Continue until gut is so full it hurts. Pass out.(I never purge) The next morning I hardly remember what I ate!(Like a blackout)
1))Wake up next morning plagued with guilt, shame, remorse,disgust all the feelings of a hangover. Very Puffy, VOW to NEVER do it again.
11)Do damage control cardio & eat low carb all day.
12)Late at night cycle repeats itself all over again!
I know the books say abstinance from trigger foods is the key, just like there is no such thing as ONE drink, but I feel like all the things that gave me pleasure, I have to give up because I have such an addictive personality that I go overbaord with everything!)...... I feel my lifestyle has become so restrictive I am not really enjoying it anymore....
I have been on Lexapro an antidepressant for the past 2 years to help with my GAD & OCD tendancies....Everything had been fine until this past month which was very stressful for me with family issues. So I do think there are emotional issues as well as brain chemistry issues. There are many layers to this problem.
Sorry for the long post but I have a doctor appt tomorrow to see my dr who prescribes the SSRI (Lexapro). I amwondering if switching my MEDS to a different drug cocktail will help with the f*cked up neurotranmitters in my brain that could be leading to binge eating???
Does anyone know if that (antidepressants, or dopamine,seratonin, norepi, neurotransmitter drugs) helps? And if so what types work better for this?
I also read the book "Love Hunger" which deals more with the emotional eating side of things. I feel there is SOME of that going on with me but more neurotransmitter related...like a switch gets turned ON after the first bite, just like after the first drink...
Any feedback is welcome!
Thanks for this thread everybody!
Lisa
Ali- Id hate to see that.. To me you have really contributed a great deal to this thread...
Definitely! :clap:
Thunder, I'm academic - I know what junk gets published, especially in psychiatry. At best, it's a pseudo-science and this leaves room for all sorts of **** to get published ....
I'm sure there are many academics on this board (myself included). And apologies for being blunt, but I thought your post was obnoxious and ignorant, and felt that Erik was quite restrained in his reply. Medical science is not perfect. And yes, the Scientific Method has limitations. But peer review is the best system that we have. It is our job as researchers to sift through published material and bring our own intelligence to sorting out good from bad, and critically evaluate the information. You don't need a PhD or an academic position to do this.
One of the limitations of medical research is that findings are based on "averages". Clinical trials may have thousands of subjects. But what works "on average" may not work at all for a particular individual. That's what makes clinical medicine difficult. Erik is not only focussing on scientific research but has worked with hundreds of clients. He is thus in a unique position to learn, not only from research, but from experiences in working very closely with clients on an individual basis. He has not been giving "advice" here. He's been providing useful information that is of wide interest to many people on this board.
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 12:51 PM
pillowtalk- antidepressants DO help, in conjunction with therapy and other means to get over any issues. Everything works together hand in hand.
And finding the right "drug" will help. I was on so many wrong ones it made me WORSE. Talk to your doc about it
I do want to comment that you said
I know the books say abstinance from trigger foods is the key
Most books actually say the opposite, especially when dealing with bulimia. As we are seeing here, new research that Erik is finding shows abstinanace, but for my recovery it was essential that I learn how to be around my trigger food and how to eat it in moderation. When I avoided it I would always go back and binge big time.
You should try the books BBB suggested closer to the start of this thread
I agree with Sarah that this thread took an unfortunate turn. :( I was too brief with my earlier green for JackieLeigh -- so, I'll expound a little. One thing I see contributing to the confusion is that some statements are being made with food issues in mind while others are being made with eating disorders in mind. It's all good disscusion and a touchy subject for some.
I don't view this thread as a right or wrong so much as people trying to help others and opening up and sharing personal struggles to both help themselves and benefit others.
Yes, there are some asshats out there with seemingly no fucking brains, but this topic is too important to too many to get derailed IMO.
Hmmm
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 01:49 PM
Erik- can you post links to where you are getting your info? I am curious and would love to read more
Erik- can you post links to where you are getting your info? I am curious and would love to read more
I referenced two books in two previous posts.
Author - Kay Sheppard. Try some of her books for a different point of view.
Example,
From the First Bite - A Complete Guide to Recovery From Food Addiction
Food Addiction - The Body Knows
jmr1228
09-07-2007, 02:34 PM
Research is calling this a biogenetic disease now. One that can be inherited, yes inherited. They have found a particilar gene that is linked to addiction.
Very interesting to read this. Although I've never been overweight, I've struggled with binge eating for over half of my life. I've always wondered if it could be somewhat linked to my parents. My father passed away a year and a half ago ultimately due to complications brought on by obesity. My mom is slender and in good health, but she has dealt with secretive binge eating for years. Her sisters have the same problem. It's interesting how some people struggle with food, whereas others have no problems...
Visionquester
09-07-2007, 04:49 PM
I referenced two books in two previous posts.
Author - Kay Sheppard. Try some of her books for a different point of view.
Example,
From the First Bite - A Complete Guide to Recovery From Food Addiction
Food Addiction - The Body Knows
Hi, I just did a "search inside this book" on Amazon and wondered if this approach to recovery is the one where you abstain from all sugar (even in ketchup and mustard) and all white flour.........forever?
~C.
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 06:10 PM
I referenced two books in two previous posts.
Author - Kay Sheppard. Try some of her books for a different point of view.
Example,
From the First Bite - A Complete Guide to Recovery From Food Addiction
Food Addiction - The Body Knows
I know you referenced books, I didnt know if you have found any web research I could take a look at.
Thank you though for those titles. I am going to take a look at them.
I still personally feel that abstinence would be so so hard, but I am curious to see if people are ever able to return to their trigger foods after this approach without binging on them
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 06:11 PM
Hi, I just did a "search inside this book" on Amazon and wondered if this approach to recovery is the one where you abstain from all sugar (even in ketchup and mustard) and all white flour.........forever?
~C.
I am curious about this as well. I wonder if that is the case, if even sugars found in fruits would be hard to control. There is sugar in lots of stuff.
It would totally have to be a 100% change of diet that's for sure
Can't answer. I'm not there yet, but I'll let you know what she advocates as soon as I get there. I get the impression early on that she is speaking of 'refined carbohydrates'.
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 06:17 PM
Can't answer. I'm not there yet, but I'll let you know what she advocates as soon as I get there. I get the impression early on that she is speaking of 'refined carbohydrates'.
Cool, thanks
I know you referenced books, I didnt know if you have found any web research I could take a look at.
Thank you though for those titles. I am going to take a look at them.
I still personally feel that abstinence would be so so hard, but I am curious to see if people are ever able to return to their trigger foods after this approach without binging on them
Why so so hard? Alcoholics do it, drug additcts do it. An alocoholic doesn't get a beer on a "cheat day"
I find I do better when I abstain. I will say that everyday that goes by I do better and better with my trigger foods. I can actually tell myself to stop before feeling sick and binging.
Mind you I've never been this lean and that helps me as well. I think when I ws bigger I just didn't care, I thought, whatever i'm big anyway won't make a difference. Weird because when I ws bigger I wanted to be smaller, now that I"m smaller my will power to stay that way has increased.
Does this make sense?
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 06:28 PM
Why so so hard? Alcoholics do it, drug additcts do it. An alocoholic doesn't get a beer on a "cheat day"
I find I do better when I abstain. I will say that everyday that goes by I do better and better with my trigger foods. I can actually tell myself to stop before feeling sick and binging.
Mind you I've never been this lean and that helps me as well. I think when I ws bigger I just didn't care, I thought, whatever i'm big anyway won't make a difference. Weird because when I ws bigger I wanted to be smaller, now that I"m smaller my will power to stay that way has increased.
Does this make sense?
It does make sense.
But if you are eating your trigger foods and stopping before a binge that isnt abstinence. You refer back to alcoholics..they will never have a drink again, and most who do have a drink after recovery relapse
I had a period where I didnt eat a few of my trigger foods for 3 years. I thought I was better so I went and had a bite, led to complete disaster. I binged, and not just once, but for days. My years of restricting just caught up with me and my old habits came back
I have found personally that when I allow my trigger foods in moderation I dont binge. I remind myself that they will be there tomorrow if I want more and am still craving it. Most of the time after having a serving, or even 2, I am satisfied and I dont have to have more, or even go back and have it the next day.
This is what they practice in ED recovery, they give you permission to eat.
The whole abstinance thing just confuses me honestly. I can see how it would work if it were possible to stay away from the trigger, but I just dont see HOW that can be done- maybe this is just because the other method has been ingrained in my mind for more than 5 years now
It does make sense.
But if you are eating your trigger foods and stopping before a binge that isnt abstinence. You refer back to alcoholics..they will never have a drink again, and most who do have a drink after recovery relapse
No I am able to do that just as of late. Before I had to abstain completely. I feel I am getting better which is why now I can have trigger foods and stop before going into a binge.
mich56
09-07-2007, 06:42 PM
I know you referenced books, I didnt know if you have found any web research I could take a look at.
Thank you though for those titles. I am going to take a look at them.
I still personally feel that abstinence would be so so hard, but I am curious to see if people are ever able to return to their trigger foods after this approach without binging on them
Hey Jackie...I went and did a google search and found her website. Very good stuff in there...like all the foods to astain (and there are a lot!)
www.kaysheppard.com
Patricia
09-07-2007, 07:02 PM
I have to agree with Ana. As it is now, I do best abstaining. But, like Jackie said, I know that one can't abstain forever.. I mean, who is NEVER going to eat a 'trigger' food again? I know the answer is to change your mindset and 'allow' these things back in...with the end point being that I CAN eat a bowl of Kashi for breakfast without bingeing the rest of the day...but, that, for me, will be in the future and I know will be a long process.
Patricia
09-07-2007, 07:09 PM
I like this article....I can relate.
http://www.kaysheppard.com/articles/FirstBite.htm
I have to agree with Ana. As it is now, I do best abstaining. But, like Jackie said, I know that one can't abstain forever.. I mean, who is NEVER going to eat a 'trigger' food again? I know the answer is to change your mindset and 'allow' these things back in...with the end point being that I CAN eat a bowl of Kashi for breakfast without bingeing the rest of the day...but, that, for me, will be in the future and I know will be a long process.
The thought of my life without chocolate makes me want to shoot myself :lol3:
From her website:
TRIGGER FOODS
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF: Alcohol, cocoa, chocolate, caffeine, all pre-sweetened products including gum, desserts, yogurt, and candy.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF SUGAR: Sucrose, fructose, corn sweeteners, dextrose, maltodextrose, polydextrose, whey, syrups, malt, rice sweeteners, honey, natural flavors, manitol, sorbitol, caramel color, artificial sweetener in packets.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF FLOUR: Corn and corn meal, wheat, rice, barley, rye, corn chips, tacos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF WHEAT PRODUCTS INCLUDING:
Macaroni, noodles, bread, pizza, crackers, pita, bagels, muffins, shredded wheat, and whole grain wheat and wheat flour.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL HIGH FAT FOODS INCLUDING: Fried food, butter, sour cream, cream, cream cheese, dairy products over 2% fat, hard cheese, ricotta cheese, nuts, seeds.
WE ABSTAIN FROM THESE FRUITS: Dried fruit, bananas, grapes, cherries, fruit juice, mangos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM PUFFED AND POPPED PRODUCTS INCLUDING: Popped corn, puffed grain cereal, rice cakes.
Consult with your physician before using this or any other food plan.
:blink:
jlb001
09-07-2007, 07:33 PM
I would die.
Patricia
09-07-2007, 07:36 PM
That's like...all foods! :lol:
I think the key is abstaining until you have successfully made it to the point where eating something 'bad' in a normal amount won't cause a binge. But, that's like a 'duh' statement......
mich56
09-07-2007, 07:48 PM
But that could be like saying that an alcoholic can eventually be able to have just one drink :confused:
However, I believe that it can be totally individual to each person. My plan of attack right now is to FOCUS ON BEING HEALTHY. I am not defined by this "disorder" and won't be allowing it to control my life. If I choose to have it control my life, then I will forever have it.
However, I believe that it can be totally individual to each person. My plan of attack right now is to FOCUS ON BEING HEALTHY. I am not defined by this "disorder" and won't be allowing it to control my life. If I choose to have it control my life, then I will forever have it.
Nice!
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 07:59 PM
No I am able to do that just as of late. Before I had to abstain completely. I feel I am getting better which is why now I can have trigger foods and stop before going into a binge.
Can you explain what you mean. You have abstained from a food or you havent? If you are eating that food, that isnt abstinence. I'm confused!
mtomm
09-07-2007, 08:00 PM
From her website:
TRIGGER FOODS
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF: Alcohol, cocoa, chocolate, caffeine, all pre-sweetened products including gum, desserts, yogurt, and candy.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF SUGAR: Sucrose, fructose, corn sweeteners, dextrose, maltodextrose, polydextrose, whey, syrups, malt, rice sweeteners, honey, natural flavors, manitol, sorbitol, caramel color, artificial sweetener in packets.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF FLOUR: Corn and corn meal, wheat, rice, barley, rye, corn chips, tacos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF WHEAT PRODUCTS INCLUDING:
Macaroni, noodles, bread, pizza, crackers, pita, bagels, muffins, shredded wheat, and whole grain wheat and wheat flour.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL HIGH FAT FOODS INCLUDING: Fried food, butter, sour cream, cream, cream cheese, dairy products over 2% fat, hard cheese, ricotta cheese, nuts, seeds.
WE ABSTAIN FROM THESE FRUITS: Dried fruit, bananas, grapes, cherries, fruit juice, mangos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM PUFFED AND POPPED PRODUCTS INCLUDING: Popped corn, puffed grain cereal, rice cakes.
Consult with your physician before using this or any other food plan.
:blink:
And this is possible? Can you then take this author seriously? Abstain for a lifetime?
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 08:00 PM
Go check out the website, that list is crazyness! I cant imagine how something like that would prevent binges.
Plus, she gives portion sizes based on being male or female. And only ONE serving of fat for day?
Most people would try to get their clients to be healthy, having so little fat is NOT healthy
We all know here one size does not fit all.
People with food issues and/or EDs need to be able to eat what is best for their body and their biological needs. Without that they are never going to get better IMO...the process is just going to continue.
Erik- where did you hear about this woman? Are there others like her? Do you know her?
mich56
09-07-2007, 08:01 PM
Nice!
Thanks! And ya know...I am aware that there will be tendencies that will come into my head...I will acknowledge those and create possibility from that. I am the possibility of health.
SusanF
09-07-2007, 08:16 PM
The thought of my life without chocolate makes me want to shoot myself :lol3:
:ditto: mmmmm..........chocolate........
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
Blondell
09-07-2007, 08:22 PM
that list is bunk.
Erik- where did you hear about this woman? Are there others like her? Do you know her?
As I already said in this thread, from an ED-recovering client of mine.
SusanF
09-07-2007, 08:22 PM
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
This was a GREAT thread. It definitely got me thinking about me and my own food issues. Wasn't that your point???? Getting us to think?
Can you explain what you mean. You have abstained from a food or you havent? If you are eating that food, that isnt abstinence. I'm confused!
Ok I"ve been working with Erik one year the first 8mths I abstained completely or I would binge.
Now recentely I've found I don't have to abstain as I can control the amount I eat without bingeing.
Maybe i'm not making sense or maybe i'm not abstaining. :oops:
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
:huh:
strongchick
09-07-2007, 08:28 PM
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
Nah, this was a very interesting thread. Very well received and good to read.
Abstinance does work for some people. Not my favorite way of doing things because it ignores the problems behind the bingeing, but it is one method a lot of people go for.
mich56
09-07-2007, 08:29 PM
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
:shrug:
What do you mean by this? This is a great thread. It has given me some prospective on my own habits and what I have been denying to myself for a long time.
THANK YOU FOR STARTING THIS THREAD!! :hearts:
ritzgal
09-07-2007, 08:29 PM
From her website:
TRIGGER FOODS
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF: Alcohol, cocoa, chocolate, caffeine, all pre-sweetened products including gum, desserts, yogurt, and candy.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF SUGAR: Sucrose, fructose, corn sweeteners, dextrose, maltodextrose, polydextrose, whey, syrups, malt, rice sweeteners, honey, natural flavors, manitol, sorbitol, caramel color, artificial sweetener in packets.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF FLOUR: Corn and corn meal, wheat, rice, barley, rye, corn chips, tacos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL FORMS OF WHEAT PRODUCTS INCLUDING:
Macaroni, noodles, bread, pizza, crackers, pita, bagels, muffins, shredded wheat, and whole grain wheat and wheat flour.
WE ABSTAIN FROM ALL HIGH FAT FOODS INCLUDING: Fried food, butter, sour cream, cream, cream cheese, dairy products over 2% fat, hard cheese, ricotta cheese, nuts, seeds.
WE ABSTAIN FROM THESE FRUITS: Dried fruit, bananas, grapes, cherries, fruit juice, mangos.
WE ABSTAIN FROM PUFFED AND POPPED PRODUCTS INCLUDING: Popped corn, puffed grain cereal, rice cakes.
Consult with your physician before using this or any other food plan.
:blink:
If I could approach this for a moment as someone without a full blown ED and not addressing those with one...
I think it's helpful to have a list to look at objectively and see which foods might be a problem for you. Pizza, dessert and candy? Yep. Big problems for me. Cottage cheese? No way in hell I'd binge on cottage cheese. I also don't have issues with nuts or bananas, for example.
I think my point is that somewhere along this thread became about the treatment of ED and what's right/wrong etc. I feel like it left those of us with "just food issues" out to dry. I think that even those who don't suffer from ED but can have mild addiction/ binge issues can still benefit from what's being offered here. :shrug:
jackieleigh
09-07-2007, 08:33 PM
Why would you erase the thread? People are obviously learning here, and you have made people aware that they may have underlying food issues. Thats a good thing IMO
And as ritz said, people can benefit from what is being offered
I'm sorry, I totally didnt read where you got the information from, I jumped into this thread a little late.
Anyways, do you know how your friend is doing recovering from her ED? Just curious because I have never seen this method used in ED clinics.
(I'll admit I am more familiar with those done through a hospital)
Brandi
09-07-2007, 08:34 PM
I think my point is that somewhere along this thread became about the treatment of ED and what's right/wrong etc. I feel like it left those of us with "just food issues" out to dry. I think that even those who don't suffer from ED but can have mild addiction/ binge issues can still benefit from what's being offered here. :shrug:
:scratch: You think that someone with a binge issue or "just food issues" (not an ED) wouldn't benefit from some of the discussion here?
ritzgal
09-07-2007, 08:36 PM
:scratch: You think that someone with a binge issue or "just food issues" (not an ED) wouldn't benefit from some of the discussion here?
Nope, you'd benefit alot from the discussion. I just felt like it turned into a pissing match over ED treatments based on some of the posts. That's all.
Brandi
09-07-2007, 08:37 PM
Ok, I get it.
:shrug: Oh well.
It is kind of like when we discuss diets or the Smith machine or anything else, though.
strongchick
09-07-2007, 08:42 PM
Ok, I get it.
:shrug: Oh well.
It is kind of like when we discuss diets or the Smith machine or anything else, though.
I like the Smith machine.
ritzgal
09-07-2007, 08:43 PM
I like the Smith machine.
I knew this was coming from somewhere. :lol:
This was a GREAT thread. It definitely got me thinking about me and my own food issues. Wasn't that your point???? Getting us to think?
:yeahthat:
Lynny
09-08-2007, 05:26 AM
Wow, this thread took an unfortunate turn. As both someone who had an ED AND as someone who used to be a clinician with people with EDs AND as a neuroscientist who does research in addiction, I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Erik has been posting. He's been posting research and bringing it up for discussion. Not suggesting treatment. As for the abstinence model, OA is a very popular approach to overcoming EDs, and I do know people for whom it is successful. Personally I'm not a fan of the AA/OA/NA abstinent model as I don't think it addresses the real issues, but for some people it does work.
And to answer the question as to when to know if you need help even if you don't meet criteria for a full ED...if your own issues are getting in the way of how you'd like to live, that is reason enough to see someone. You don't have to meet full criteria for it to get in the way of your life. There are also numerous self-help books (Intuitive Eating is my favorite) that can be beneficial.
Thank you Sarah. :) Good post.
I think then all information on this thread should be erased and it can start over with different information. :lol:
My intentions were good. :shrug:
Oh well. I'll stick to posting about contest prep or something.
Nope. This is a good thread. Made me think about eating and why I do the things I do.
Information, thinking, talking, sharing...that's why we are here.
I am not willing to give up some of those foods for the rest of my life. But it's good to be aware which things might cause a problem.
For me, I just have to find ways to deal with this. I've done things like...save the cheat for the end of the day...take stuff out of the house when I am beginning a diet...keep up with my lifting...especially when there are days when I've eaten a tons of refined carbs...have my cheats outside of the house, etc. I wrote about this kind of thing when I did that 'how do we do it' thing for Erik. :)
Nope. This is a good thread. Made me think about eating and why I do the things I do.
Information, thinking, talking, sharing...that's why we are here.
I am not willing to give up some of those foods for the rest of my life. But it's good to be aware which things might cause a problem.
For me, I just have to find ways to deal with this. I've done things like...save the cheat for the end of the day...take stuff out of the house when I am beginning a diet...keep up with my lifting...especially when there are days when I've eaten a tons of refined carbs...have my cheats outside of the house, etc. I wrote about this kind of thing when I did that 'how do we do it' thing for Erik. :)
These are all things I have come to realize over time. This thread has been awesome for that reason. I am not alone- and THAT is validating to me.
BigDog
09-10-2007, 12:19 AM
On the topic of disturbed body image and how it ties in, it's said that self disgust is a byproduct of food addiction. Dissatisfaction with the body and body parts is part of the process. As a person eats addictively, fear and hatred of fat drives the person crazy. It's impossible to feel self worth when eating is out of control.
There's a direct correlation b/w what happens to the addict physically and the level of self esteem.
The more weight gained for example, the more self loathing experienced. The more the person curses themselves for their weakness. They blame themselves, instead of the actual disease.
Also read that 'weighing is the addiction within the addiction'. If it drops, elation. If it goes up, despair. The scale is the ruler of the food addict's universe. That number can make or break the day.
This is me. It's funny, I have struggled with ED's my entire life. Classic binge eater. For 3 years after the birth of my son, I did not have one binge episode. Didn't even think about food, really. I was in a miserable relationship and stressed to the max. Last October, I weighed 103 lbs at 5'5". I ended the relationship last November and have binged weekly since. I've gained 12 lbs in 10 months. I am constantly bingeing but I am so much less stressed and happier with my life. I can't figure out why now?
And Erik, it's a fantastic thread. No worries.
Two new 2007 publications supporting the idea that food addiction is real and is physiologically similar to other chemical/drug addictions.
The research is coming ...
Grimm O. Addicted to food. Scientific American Mind 2007; 18(2):36-39
Avena NM, Rada P, Hoebel BG. Evidence for sugar addiction: Behavioural and neurochemical effects of intermittent excessive sugar intake. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 2007; 18:3-20.
strive4more
09-23-2007, 01:12 AM
Very good thread. I joined the site, just to read this thread. Several people outside of Lean Bodies are "talking" about it.
I wonder if the "stress" of dieting makes the body crave serotonin? And then from there binge eating starts?
After reading this thread, I believe there can be different levels of binge eating. The all out case, eating till your stomach hurts, or eating 12 cookies. Both are problematic.
jaleena
09-23-2007, 02:32 AM
What about weird OCD behavioural stuff with food, what is that?
I was talking with my father today about something and cashews came up...turns out he can't have them because he won't stop until they're gone, way past being full...and he's not focused on how much he likes cashews, or being hungry and wanting more, or anything like that, but the way they crumble in his mouth drives him to distraction. Some texture thing that's way addictive to him. I've never heard of this :unsure: For what it's worth, he's got no other food issues :shrug:
strongchick
09-23-2007, 03:53 AM
Two new 2007 publications supporting the idea that food addiction is real and is physiologically similar to other chemical/drug addictions.
Avena NM, Rada P, Hoebel BG. Evidence for sugar addiction: Behavioural and neurochemical effects of intermittent excessive sugar intake. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 2007; 18:3-20.
I have this journal...I'm going to check it out.
Thank you.
pillowtalk
09-23-2007, 06:01 PM
I would love to hear more about this article. Do they mention if SSRI drugs help at all in binge eating?
strongchick
09-23-2007, 09:13 PM
SSRI drugs have been shown to be effective in binge eating.
Ruthie
09-23-2007, 09:17 PM
I didn't read all the posts but it is a matter of humans seeking false comfort-for some it is drinking -some sex-some sleeping too much-some drugs-some food....
BigDog
09-24-2007, 12:21 AM
I didn't read all the posts but it is a matter of humans seeking false comfort-for some it is drinking -some sex-some sleeping too much-some drugs-some food....
For some, probably... but I do believe there is a physiological/biological basis for others.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned it before, but once again it is very interesting how different my body now deals with trigger foods.
Until about a year ago I'd be unable to handle trigger foods without having the uncontrollable urge to eat the entire package. Like an entire bar of milk chocolate (doesn't happen with dark chocolate) or an entire roll of caramel rice cakes.
About 6 months ago I started using a fortified B-supplement containing sulbutiamine (fat-soluble B1) . Apparently it improves your carb metabolism.
The effect was amazing: after a few weeks I noticed how all of a sudden carbs started to satiate me instead of making me feel ravenous. I was able to eat 2-3 rice cakes and then feel satiated enough to stop. Same with white (basmati) rice.
It's bloody amazing!
However, my carb requirements have also gone up in the past year. Mostly because I feel very hungry after training as well as getting weird symptoms like tingling arms & blurry eye vision when dropping carbs below 150g on average.
Well, lo & behold.. I've been put on Cytomel (T3) because of subrange tT3 levels less than 2 weeks ago. After crashing within 2 days on 1/4th tab (6mcg) I'm now at 1/2 tab (12.5mcg) and the effect is short of amazing. Feeling relaxed, calm and.. totally not tired after working out. Yes, my muscles fail to do more, but I"m not exhausted anymore. The very interesting result is that I no longer feel the need to feed myself as many carbs as before.
So, I dropped intake. Normally, this results in a disappearance of DOMS as a low carb intake has alway had this effect in the past. Not this time.
Just had to share a few most remarkable effects of how hormones affect the need for carbs. Very high stress levels = incredible yearning for carbs especially the mentally soothing ones that result in plenty serotonine! AKA chocolate!
Probably being on some thyroid support (when you're hypothyroid!!!) as well as adrenal support (B-vitamins support the adrenal system) lessens the burden on our body and decreases the incidence of binge eating episodes.
So, for me the binge eating was nearly entirely physiologically/hormonally driven! I couldn't have been happier! Many thanks to Inatic for helping me out here so much!
jackieleigh
09-28-2007, 10:41 PM
SSRI drugs have been shown to be effective in binge eating.
I believe this to be true.....from personal experience
pillowtalk
09-30-2007, 04:03 AM
SSRI drugs have been shown to be effective in binge eating.
Do you or anyone know which SSRI's and what dose are most effective?
I am currently on 30mg of Lexapro and it really has not helped that much yet...
Are others proven to be more effective?
Thanks!
Mandy
09-30-2007, 06:06 PM
I was not going to read the entire thread and I just now saw it so i might slowly make my way through it, but my input is that several clients at the agency I am interning have food addiction (one example of a woman that would go to walmart or wherever and buy 2 sheet cakes and eat all of them in one sitting, lives revolved around food). It's pretty much the same thing as alcohol or drug addiction, as well as treated in the same manner in the same group as drug addicts - via the 12 step program found in Alcoholics Anonymous.
and the issue is not the food, it is not the substance, there is a Spiritual Sickness according to the program and even though it's Christian based which I am not a fan of, it's worked for many people.
Bravogrl27
09-30-2007, 07:27 PM
I was not going to read the entire thread and I just now saw it so i might slowly make my way through it, but my input is that several clients at the agency I am interning have food addiction (one example of a woman that would go to walmart or wherever and buy 2 sheet cakes and eat all of them in one sitting, lives revolved around food). It's pretty much the same thing as alcohol or drug addiction, as well as treated in the same manner in the same group as drug addicts - via the 12 step program found in Alcoholics Anonymous.
and the issue is not the food, it is not the substance, there is a Spiritual Sickness according to the program and even though it's Christian based which I am not a fan of, it's worked for many people.
Almost ten years ago, I did a program similar to that with my grandma and aunt, along with several other women in the church... it's called PRISM and it does just what you said, focuses on the issue of a spiritual sickness... and how we go to food instead of God... it was really similar to Atkins as far as the food restrictions, but went into different phases... first phase, all refined sugars gone... by second or third phase we could have a baked potato... we had to read daily devotions and do some different things, like first no scale... and cutting out pictures of who we thought we'd look like at our ideal image and having that picture on the mirror every day... the cheesy part was having to listen to this tape every morning, as this woman sang in a ghey 80's voice about Transformations and New Beginnings... and we had to rehearse these words of affirmations over ourselves every morning too... a lot of it was similar to a 12 step program as far as first recognizing we were powerless to food and that we needed a higher power for help... and learning to go God instead of food for comfort...
There were some positives I got out of it... Even though I gained weight on the program :lol: I still saw how I'd been raised to treat food as comfort... anytime I was sad, my grandma would stuff a cookie in me... anytime I was lonely, oh here dear, have another helping... and the foods we ate, covered in lard... so it overall a positive experience spiritually... very enlightening... but diet-wise and exercise-wise... just not for me. But for someone just needing to take baby steps in recovering from a food addiction, I'd recommend it.
Mandy
09-30-2007, 08:06 PM
Bravo, the thing, according to the 12 steps is that programs like those are not complete, have to do all 12 steps, can't mix and match stuff and be effective. Other side little programs adapt certain things. It is the 12 steps that work, not just a couple steps here and there.
Bravogrl27
09-30-2007, 08:43 PM
Bravo, the thing, according to the 12 steps is that programs like those are not complete, have to do all 12 steps, can't mix and match stuff and be effective. Other side little programs adapt certain things. It is the 12 steps that work, not just a couple steps here and there.
thus explains my weight gain on that program... :uhuh: :lol3:
strongchick
10-01-2007, 01:59 PM
I was not going to read the entire thread and I just now saw it so i might slowly make my way through it, but my input is that several clients at the agency I am interning have food addiction (one example of a woman that would go to walmart or wherever and buy 2 sheet cakes and eat all of them in one sitting, lives revolved around food). It's pretty much the same thing as alcohol or drug addiction, as well as treated in the same manner in the same group as drug addicts - via the 12 step program found in Alcoholics Anonymous.
and the issue is not the food, it is not the substance, there is a Spiritual Sickness according to the program and even though it's Christian based which I am not a fan of, it's worked for many people.
Overeating anonymous groups have modeled themselves after AA and do the same sort of thing. You can find groups online.
As for the drug dose, its entirely individual.
Mandy
10-02-2007, 01:16 AM
Overeating anonymous groups have modeled themselves after AA and do the same sort of thing. You can find groups online.
As for the drug dose, its entirely individual.
yes, I know this. I don't condone doing the online thing on support groups like that. People can talk a lot of crap online and the person on the other end is none the wiser, the internet is a nice tool, but not for supportive care in instances like addictions.
The group that I am involved in (since there are so many different people with addictions but not enough that are willing to be in a group of just one type of addiction for insurance to pay at the agency) is a mixed assortment. The problem is getting someone with delusions and hallucinations with an eating addiction to see how they relate to someone with a gambling addiction . . . . gets a bit uhhh odd and amusing at times.
Visionquester
10-02-2007, 03:35 AM
I think the steps are unreasonable.
~C.
Mandy
10-02-2007, 09:55 AM
I think the steps are unreasonable.
~C.
the 12 steps? unreasonable, how? if someone has a legitimate addiction that's f'ing with their entire world, if the steps would help them overcome that addiction, I don't see the problem? People in the group are whining about how hard they are. Things normally aren't just handed over to people without work. Especially a food addiction that resulted in a woman being 400 pounds with a trach (whatever, that tube in the throat to help her breathe, her fat was crushing lungs or causing her to not be able to breathe). I don't think she can just put the cakes down after 30+ years. It's obvious she can't do it alone.
strongchick
10-02-2007, 01:28 PM
yes, I know this. I don't condone doing the online thing on support groups like that. People can talk a lot of crap online and the person on the other end is none the wiser, the internet is a nice tool, but not for supportive care in instances like addictions.
No. I mean you can find OA groups via an online search. They have a website.
And I disagree about some of the online support groups. If they are properly moderated (something fishy is a great example) they are wonderful tools.
Visionquester
10-02-2007, 04:40 PM
the 12 steps? unreasonable, how? if someone has a legitimate addiction that's f'ing with their entire world, if the steps would help them overcome that addiction, I don't see the problem? People in the group are whining about how hard they are. Things normally aren't just handed over to people without work. Especially a food addiction that resulted in a woman being 400 pounds with a trach (whatever, that tube in the throat to help her breathe, her fat was crushing lungs or causing her to not be able to breathe). I don't think she can just put the cakes down after 30+ years. It's obvious she can't do it alone.
Don't get me wrong; I think it its great if it works for someone and can really change their life. I, personally, could never imagine in a million years doing step 8. Also step 1 goes against my beliefs. I just don't have it in me to admit that I am powerless. I mean, I certainly ask God for help, but I just believe that I am the only person who has control over my eating habits. I guess I believe that the power has already been given to us all. I believe that I can resist something if I choose to. There have been a few months that I have given in to every whim for junk food that fancied me, but when I really ask myself what it is that I want......
~C.
Mandy
10-03-2007, 04:44 PM
Don't get me wrong; I think it its great if it works for someone and can really change their life. I, personally, could never imagine in a million years doing step 8. Also step 1 goes against my beliefs. I just don't have it in me to admit that I am powerless. I mean, I certainly ask God for help, but I just believe that I am the only person who has control over my eating habits. I guess I believe that the power has already been given to us all. I believe that I can resist something if I choose to. There have been a few months that I have given in to every whim for junk food that fancied me, but when I really ask myself what it is that I want......
~C.
Powerless over the addiction. not powerless in general. That's problem with people with addictions. They generally think they can control it, and are in control. They have to admit that they are powerless over whatever it is that has caused their life to basically go to crap.
I think you and I may be talking about 2 different things. I can't say or tell whether what you're talking about is an addiction. I'm going to guess it's nowhere close to it. :)
Mandy
10-03-2007, 04:49 PM
No. I mean you can find OA groups via an online search. They have a website.
And I disagree about some of the online support groups. If they are properly moderated (something fishy is a great example) they are wonderful tools.
Support groups are one thing, I am just leery about addiction groups online. I don't think they are ideal. The point of a sponsor is generally to look for someone who has what you want. A person online can make themselves out to be whatever they want but it might be a complete lie. That is why I find them to not be great. It's not a moderation issue, but more or less how valuable I find the truth you can only get if you see a person as opposed to hiding behind a computer screen to do whatever. By no means do I think everyone would do that, I hope a small number of people actually do. It is just less than ideal in my opinion.
mackie
10-03-2007, 10:06 PM
Don't get me wrong; I think it its great if it works for someone and can really change their life. I, personally, could never imagine in a million years doing step 8. Also step 1 goes against my beliefs. I just don't have it in me to admit that I am powerless. I mean, I certainly ask God for help, but I just believe that I am the only person who has control over my eating habits. I guess I believe that the power has already been given to us all. I believe that I can resist something if I choose to. There have been a few months that I have given in to every whim for junk food that fancied me, but when I really ask myself what it is that I want......
~C.
I'm not a big fan of 12-step programs either. When I quit drinking (trust me, I was the biggest drunk mess you've ever seen) I explored & researched many avenues, read a thousand books with various philosophies... and upon the insistence of my alcohol rehab counselor, attended a bzillion AA meetings. I swear, I went in with an open mind... and was determined to do my best to use it as a tool to help myself. But I couldn't stand it!!!
I didn't agree with alot of the philosophy, the approach or principles. And the hardcore 12-steppin' members gave me the creeps.
Don't get me wrong... I do give AA/NA/OA credit, because millions of people claim that it has helped them gain control.. and that's what its all about. But it was definitely not for me!!
strongchick
10-04-2007, 02:57 PM
AA actually has a very poor rate of recovery. They just don't publish it. I believe its around 30%.
mackie
10-04-2007, 07:08 PM
AA actually has a very poor rate of recovery. They just don't publish it. I believe its around 30%.
Probably because they put all focus on God & spirituality... while totally ignoring the physiological realities of alcohol addiction. Just as most treatment clinics/centers/programs also have a low success rate... because they mainly use a psycho-therapy type approach... and barely address the physiological aspects.
soontobefit
11-08-2007, 12:41 AM
I have definitely experience food addiction in my life. Within the past 4.5 years, I have made significant changes to try and break the addiction. I have lost 80 pounds in that time. But I still had periods of time over that period where I go back to my addictive ways. I find I can control/overcome the addiction when I am under a controlled program (hence why I recruited Mr. Erik.) When I am spending money to get a result, I don't want to waste my money. I enjoy my few free meals I get, but don't enjoy how I feel afterwards. I hope my body will get to the point that I want it to be (somewhat undertermined, but I basically want to be very fit) so that I never experience the addiction again. I think it is kind of like anyone who has experienced a drug or alcohol addiction and overcome it...they are always recovering! Don't scream at me for making that comment please, I know that food addiction is totally not as dangerous as drugs and alcohol! Anyways, great mini-article as usual T! :)
LynnP
01-15-2008, 08:50 PM
I haven't read all of the post in this thread, but I can understand this. I am finding myself doing this right now. It is quite possibly one of the most frustrating this. It's like I am sabotoging myself. (sp??) Sometimes I feel that I am so alone in my quest for the body I want that if no one knows what I've eaten then what does it matter. So stupid, I know. I mean just today I had eaten on point until an hour ago when I went to the store to get a beverage and got a candy bar, and some other candy. It's crazy becuase I am such and introspective person that I stand there in front of the candy and literally have this conversation in my head thinking it all out, how I will feel, how it makes me feel about myself, how I feel it totally undid the 4 mile run today and the work out I did last night, and yet today I still grabbed up the sh*t. Maybe if I start a journal and actually have to post what I am eating I might be a little more careful about what I eat since others will be looking at it. It is very defeating, and I do it to myself. WTF! Please kick my butt out of this. Be harsh, be a bully. I feel like I am surrounded by fluffy people. Even the trainer at my gym when I told him I wanted a strength workout had me doing primarily stability and exercise ball stuff!!!!
I haven't read all of the post in this thread, but I can understand this. I am finding myself doing this right now. It is quite possibly one of the most frustrating this. It's like I am sabotoging myself. (sp??) Sometimes I feel that I am so alone in my quest for the body I want that if no one knows what I've eaten then what does it matter. So stupid, I know. I mean just today I had eaten on point until an hour ago when I went to the store to get a beverage and got a candy bar, and some other candy. It's crazy becuase I am such and introspective person that I stand there in front of the candy and literally have this conversation in my head thinking it all out, how I will feel, how it makes me feel about myself, how I feel it totally undid the 4 mile run today and the work out I did last night, and yet today I still grabbed up the sh*t. Maybe if I start a journal and actually have to post what I am eating I might be a little more careful about what I eat since others will be looking at it. It is very defeating, and I do it to myself. WTF! Please kick my butt out of this. Be harsh, be a bully. I feel like I am surrounded by fluffy people. Even the trainer at my gym when I told him I wanted a strength workout had me doing primarily stability and exercise ball stuff!!!!
Before I even read the bolded part there, I was going to ask what kind of social support for your goals you have.
A journal could be very, very helpful.
And fire the trainer.
LynnP
01-15-2008, 08:58 PM
Yes my social support is that everyone thinks it's great that I work out and train, but they don't quite understand how my eating can completely ruin it, and how frustrating it can bt. They just say "it's ok you work out all the time" I just can't explain myself to them so they understand with out getting so stressed out that I go for a chocolate (Totally counter productive) They say that I am being too hard on myself. But they have no idea how much it sucks to work so hard then ruin it with one thing!
Trainer has already been fired!! Working on putting together a better program.
I think I might start a journal...
Noel Clark
01-15-2008, 09:02 PM
Yes my social support is that everyone thinks it's great that I work out and train, but they don't quite understand how my eating can completely ruin it, and how frustrating it can bt. They just say "it's ok you work out all the time" I just can't explain myself to them so they understand with out getting so stressed out that I go for a chocolate (Totally counter productive) They say that I am being too hard on myself. But they have no idea how much it sucks to work so hard then ruin it with one thing!
Trainer has already been fired!! Working on putting together a better program.
I think I might start a journal...
You will definitely get support and understanding here. there are quite a few here that go through the same things.
Maybe it is something in your program that you are doing wrong that will help you, if you change it, stick to the plan. Start a journal...show what you are doing in the gym and in the kitchen. There will be a lot of help if you need it.
Yes my social support is that everyone thinks it's great that I work out and train, but they don't quite understand how my eating can completely ruin it, and how frustrating it can bt. They just say "it's ok you work out all the time" I just can't explain myself to them so they understand with out getting so stressed out that I go for a chocolate (Totally counter productive) They say that I am being too hard on myself. But they have no idea how much it sucks to work so hard then ruin it with one thing!
Trainer has already been fired!! Working on putting together a better program.
I think I might start a journal...
As Noel alluded to, maybe there's something in how your plan is set up that's holding you back. Maybe it's overly restrictive? I don't know.
You might consider both training and nutrition for some feedback.
LynnP
01-15-2008, 09:18 PM
I know it sounds dumb, but I have always had a hard time eating enough. I've gotten the response, open mouth, put in food, swallow. But it's not that easy for me. Even though I know that eating more will allow me to lose weight sometimes I just can't get it through my head that I need to eat more. So I have a feeling that if I plugged in what I've eaten so far today I might be around 1000 or so cals and I should probably be for the total day at about 1800 give or take. I mostly eat clean, and I am trying to get more strick with that. I just really want to be critiqued so I really get to know what I am doing wrong!! :) So tough love is all good to me.
Noel Clark
01-15-2008, 09:21 PM
I know it sounds dumb, but I have always had a hard time eating enough. I've gotten the response, open mouth, put in food, swallow. But it's not that easy for me. Even though I know that eating more will allow me to lose weight sometimes I just can't get it through my head that I need to eat more. So I have a feeling that if I plugged in what I've eaten so far today I might be around 1000 or so cals and I should probably be for the total day at about 1800 give or take. I mostly eat clean, and I am trying to get more strick with that. I just really want to be critiqued so I really get to know what I am doing wrong!! :) So tough love is all good to me.
But see, this to me shows why you are feeling like you need to grab those candy bars. You are not getting enough! So maybe if you look at it that way, that if you start to eat more...it will help the other issues that you are going through now.
Post up and we can figure out what to do! :)
LynnP
01-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Ok so bear with me. I am training for a half marathon so for right now most of my cardio is ss. I work in two strength days, but those are pretty pathetic right now as my "trainer" as I said earlier was a little fluffy with me.
4 mile run this am
Breakfast: protein pancake, h20
Snack: homeade protein bar, cup of green tea
Snack: Smoothie from Plante Smoothie (approx 250 cals. I have the brochure in the car, Im at my desk at work)
Late Lunch:
1/4 cp Wild&brown rice
1 cup of mixed vegtables (frozen)
1/2 of a large chicken brest grilled
2tbs ff cottage cheese
h20
then crash and burn I had a reeses fast break, and a diet coke.
Today is a little off, don't usually have a smoothie that I don't make at home.
Dinner is planned since I have to work my second job.
1/2 of large chicken brest grilled
homemade hummus (1 tbs)
1/2 cup of spinnach in a wrap.
I have unsalted dry roasted peanuts & and orange in case I get a little hungry before I get home from work.
Noel Clark
01-15-2008, 09:36 PM
Ok so bear with me. I am training for a half marathon so for right now most of my cardio is ss. I work in two strength days, but those are pretty pathetic right now as my "trainer" as I said earlier was a little fluffy with me.
4 mile run this am
Breakfast: protein pancake, h20
Snack: homeade protein bar, cup of green tea
Snack: Smoothie from Plante Smoothie (approx 250 cals. I have the brochure in the car, Im at my desk at work)
Late Lunch:
1/4 cp Wild&brown rice
1 cup of mixed vegtables (frozen)
1/2 of a large chicken brest grilled
2tbs ff cottage cheese
h20
then crash and burn I had a reeses fast break, and a diet coke.
Today is a little off, don't usually have a smoothie that I don't make at home.
Dinner is planned since I have to work my second job.
1/2 of large chicken brest grilled
homemade hummus (1 tbs)
1/2 cup of spinnach in a wrap.
I have unsalted dry roasted peanuts & and orange in case I get a little hungry before I get home from work.
Ok Start a journal And I will move this post over there. More ppl will see it and be able to help you out. Also, you need to pos your macros when you get a chance so that we are able to see better what you are getting in.
Ok Start a journal And I will move this post over there. More ppl will see it and be able to help you out. Also, you need to your macros when you get a chance so that we are able to see better what you are getting in.
Actually she should repost that post to a new thread in Nutrition so she can get more feedback.
Noel Clark
01-15-2008, 09:41 PM
Actually she should repost that post to a new thread in Nutrition so she can get more feedback.
ok do that then
ok do that then
She'll have to do it.
Noel Clark
01-15-2008, 09:44 PM
She'll have to do it.
NO I was saying do what you said. Not for YOU to do it.
LynnP
01-15-2008, 09:59 PM
Ok ok you two :chairshot:!!! I reposted it to the nutrition section, and it is officially be my first post to my journal :weightlift2: look for it, I hope you'll find the humor in the title, I cracked myself up with it. I felt....clever! :)
FitGurl
01-29-2008, 08:33 AM
On the topic of disturbed body image and how it ties in, it's said that self disgust is a byproduct of food addiction. Dissatisfaction with the body and body parts is part of the process. As a person eats addictively, fear and hatred of fat drives the person crazy. It's impossible to feel self worth when eating is out of control.
There's a direct correlation b/w what happens to the addict physically and the level of self esteem.
The more weight gained for example, the more self loathing experienced. The more the person curses themselves for their weakness. They blame themselves, instead of the actual disease.
Also read that 'weighing is the addiction within the addiction'. If it drops, elation. If it goes up, despair. The scale is the ruler of the food addict's universe. That number can make or break the day.
Ya this is me. Excellent thread.
FitGurl
01-29-2008, 08:38 AM
No you're not prying at all. I guess it is an addiction and that's why I can go long periods of time without doing it. If I stay away from my trigger foods I"m fine, I feel good, I don't even crave them, if I cave (this is why cheats and refeeds are so tough for me) it's down hill from there.
:yeahthat:
rene7465
05-16-2008, 01:32 PM
Hi, I am Rene' and sometimes chocolate compulsively gets into my mouth despite the negative consequence it will have on me! No really good info. I don't have the above. But do sometimes become overwhelmed with the need to eat something sweet, usually when carb. restricted...despite how I know I shouldn't!
GraceGirl
05-16-2008, 01:40 PM
Hi, I am Rene' and sometimes chocolate compulsively gets into my mouth despite the negative consequence it will have on me! No really good info. I don't have the above. But do sometimes become overwhelmed with the need to eat something sweet, usually when carb. restricted...despite how I know I shouldn't!
Try making a pro-ho (protein powder mixed with water and then nuked for about 30 seconds). It totally kills my sweet tooth, and if I want something chocolate, I use PVL's peaut butter chocolate, mix it with some Walden Farms chocolate dip, nuke, and I have a chocolate brownie.
I could not make it without my pro-ho's! :D (OK, so maybe I could, but it's certainly MUCH easier!!)
rene7465
05-16-2008, 06:21 PM
Try making a pro-ho (protein powder mixed with water and then nuked for about 30 seconds). It totally kills my sweet tooth, and if I want something chocolate, I use PVL's peaut butter chocolate, mix it with some Walden Farms chocolate dip, nuke, and I have a chocolate brownie.
I could not make it without my pro-ho's! :D (OK, so maybe I could, but it's certainly MUCH easier!!)
Hey thank you I will try that:yum:
jckslinks
12-22-2009, 11:51 PM
Hello: My name is JC and I am a food addict
Wells
12-23-2009, 12:24 AM
Hello: My name is JC and I am a food addict
Hi JC (mom) Welcome!:wave:
Tearose
12-30-2009, 12:11 PM
wow thats me to a T...
So umm...how do we fix it?
orbie
12-31-2009, 08:39 PM
Wow. Great thread. I think I have some of these tendencies but not all. I suppose with food addiction it's a mind over matter game. I suppose it's that way for all addictions really!!
:bump:
I wanted to post in here because I have been having some great discussions with a friend of mine who had a gastric bypass a couple of years ago and is still 200 lbs. We got talking about food and nutrition and given her stomach is now the size (roughly) of a large egg and that her intestines have been re-routed (which makes her absorb slightly less of the calories), I wanted to hear what she would say.
This led into a huge discussion on the mental side of weight loss. She had no idea mentally she would have such a struggle. She told me a story of going to a restaurant with her husband and ordering soup and barely making a dent in it due to being full. She was so upset. Huh? I was puzzled at first but then after talking more it made sense. She felt as if she had been 'jipped' or ripped off by not being able to eat more. Its like she had a sense of accomplishment by 'finishing' her food in the past.
It was rather interesting how mentally we are controlled by foods. It kind of reminded me of sometimes when we cheat we treat it like our 'last supper' and have ridiculous amounts of things justified by saying we might not have it in a long time. Prior to dieting, I never thought this way. I would have my brownie and be done with it.
It goes to show that no surgery will guarantee success.
I'm not sure where I am going with this post :p but wanted to get others feedback on this.
BigDog
01-19-2010, 06:41 PM
:bump:
I wanted to post in here because I have been having some great discussions with a friend of mine who had a gastric bypass a couple of years ago and is still 200 lbs. We got talking about food and nutrition and given her stomach is now the size (roughly) of a large egg and that her intestines have been re-routed (which makes her absorb slightly less of the calories), I wanted to hear what she would say.
This led into a huge discussion on the mental side of weight loss. She had no idea mentally she would have such a struggle. She told me a story of going to a restaurant with her husband and ordering soup and barely making a dent in it due to being full. She was so upset. Huh? I was puzzled at first but then after talking more it made sense. She felt as if she had been 'jipped' or ripped off by not being able to eat more. Its like she had a sense of accomplishment by 'finishing' her food in the past.
It was rather interesting how mentally we are controlled by foods. It kind of reminded me of sometimes when we cheat we treat it like our 'last supper' and have ridiculous amounts of things justified by saying we might not have it in a long time. Prior to dieting, I never thought this way. I would have my brownie and be done with it.
It goes to show that no surgery will guarantee success.
I'm not sure where I am going with this post :p but wanted to get others feedback on this.
Her response makes sense to me. Some of see food as a major source of gratification and comfort. I feel content when I am full.
Easier said than done but it helps to try to "move" those feelings of gratification to something else. I have yet to find something that is equally fulfilling but am trying to find substitutes other than food that simulate this feeling.
Patricia
01-19-2010, 07:13 PM
Her response makes sense to me. Some of see food as a major source of gratification and comfort. I feel content when I am full.
Easier said than done but it helps to try to "move" those feelings of gratification to something else. I have yet to find something that is equally fulfilling but am trying to find substitutes other than food that simulate this feeling.
I agree.
I've been a lil MIA from the boards lately...dealing with food addiction/days and days of overeating issues myself...for the greater part of the past year.
I slowly conditioned myself to get relief from stress/boredom/anxiety by eating. And, noticed how strong I was almost "pulled" into the kitchen or convenience stores when I was getting those feelings. If I didn't give in I'd have a hell of a fight. It's crazy.
I have found lately I can't even have 'treats' or sugary, sweet, fatty, 'feel good' food...I'll just continue to over eat it for days after.
I've found it much easier now to just not start at all than to stop.
simshalmed
12-28-2010, 10:17 AM
It's just your mind tendency, and this over eating addiction can be controlled, if you have that control on yourself.
maddix2010
04-08-2011, 04:02 AM
Bingo.
I can go from looking at myself in the mirror and thinking "You've got to get the size of your ass under control," to heading down the hall raiding the candy jar because I'm stressed out. Thus like Erik said, one minute loathing what the food is doing to my body, and shoving it in my face the next.
Maybe not addiction, but I do have food issues.
I agree with you... But my problem is eating to much, the food itself is usually not bad for me, but the amount is where I get into trouble. I just fee hungry all the time! Especially in late afternoon to when I go to bed.
Unfortunately, if you're trying to lose body fat, hunger tends to be something you have to accept as normal. Trying to always eat to counter it typically leads to well, no results.
It only makes sense that in a caloric deficit, most people will eventually deal w/ hunger.
NCKate
05-07-2011, 12:37 AM
This is such a great thread! I never realized how much of an emotional connection I had to food and how much distorted thinking I had relating to food until I started with LBC. I'm learning so much! If you haven't read Mindless Eating yet, you really should do so!
Hi My name is Tiff Im a food addict.... I def can relate to one bite and its all over with
krissy9876
08-23-2011, 04:08 AM
Hi My name is Tiff Im a food addict.... I def can relate to one bite and its all over with
I hear you Tiff. Me too! Very consciously working thru it right now while I'm on the waitlist.
chrysalis1
08-23-2011, 08:52 AM
Hi My name is Tiff Im a food addict.... I def can relate to one bite and its all over with
:wave:
jimbob12
03-19-2012, 02:10 PM
Believe it or not, the only food I'm addicted to is brussels sprouts - I guess I'm just lucky, though other people might disagree!
Belle72
03-22-2012, 05:37 PM
I searched the archives on binge eating because I have this problem. The binging become pronounced after my first competition and now 6months later, I'm doing it because of emotional stressors. Interesting thread to read. I think the key here is that I must remove all processed carbs and sugary foods period. My PWO should only be a fruit because the PWO "treat" can trigger a binge.
Belle72
03-22-2012, 05:44 PM
:bump:
I wanted to post in here because I have been having some great discussions with a friend of mine who had a gastric bypass a couple of years ago and is still 200 lbs. We got talking about food and nutrition and given her stomach is now the size (roughly) of a large egg and that her intestines have been re-routed (which makes her absorb slightly less of the calories), I wanted to hear what she would say.
This led into a huge discussion on the mental side of weight loss. She had no idea mentally she would have such a struggle. She told me a story of going to a restaurant with her husband and ordering soup and barely making a dent in it due to being full. She was so upset. Huh? I was puzzled at first but then after talking more it made sense. She felt as if she had been 'jipped' or ripped off by not being able to eat more. Its like she had a sense of accomplishment by 'finishing' her food in the past.
It was rather interesting how mentally we are controlled by foods. It kind of reminded me of sometimes when we cheat we treat it like our 'last supper' and have ridiculous amounts of things justified by saying we might not have it in a long time. Prior to dieting, I never thought this way. I would have my brownie and be done with it.
It goes to show that no surgery will guarantee success.
I'm not sure where I am going with this post :p but wanted to get others feedback on this.
I just read through this thread because I've been in a binging rut. But I'd like to put my 2cents in... I am an anesthesiologist, see bariatric patients and have a few coworkers who went through gastric restrictive surgery. I attended a bariatric conference and found out that surgery is not a guarantee of weight loss or maintenance of weight once it's lost. I see most of these patients lose some weight but still look fat. I'm sure part is lack of exercise, but interesting to know that if they are hungry they will find a way to get the calories in...often times in liquid supplements like protein shakes, yogurts...and there IS a way of eating high fat/ high sugar poor nutrition foods even with surgery.
stephm2010
03-22-2012, 06:23 PM
I searched the archives on binge eating because I have this problem. The binging become pronounced after my first competition and now 6months later, I'm doing it because of emotional stressors. Interesting thread to read. I think the key here is that I must remove all processed carbs and sugary foods period. My PWO should only be a fruit because the PWO "treat" can trigger a binge.
Fruit is not ideal PWO. If the treats trigger you then stick with something like cream of rice, oats, rice,or potato anything complex instead of snacky.. Good luck :hug:
Girlybodybuilder
03-31-2012, 10:20 PM
Wow! I've never heard of pro-ho's! It never ceases to amaze me what I learn here!
Girlybodybuilder
04-01-2012, 08:27 PM
Hi, I'm Bonnie. And I'm a food addict. I have been struggling these last few months, going strong on keeping my nutrition tight and, as I'm seeing a pattern develop: the 4th day "crash and burn". I have cleared every tempting thing out of my house but still seem to always find something "creative" to binge on. And it is ALWAYS something sweet and carb filled. It's devastating to my diet!
Inatic
04-01-2012, 08:44 PM
what does your diet look like that you do maintain/hold tight for the 3-4 days?
Muggins
04-02-2012, 03:34 AM
Wow, this is fascinating. I am a food addict and didn't realize so many others were also. I've been binging for over a week now. Just finished off an ice cream bar, chocolate bar, beer, popcorn... I could keep going. I keep a strict and healthy diet most of the time, but sometimes I just fall off and go haywire, gaining all my weight back. The ups and downs are so frustrating. Glad I'm not alone in this and hoping to learn a ton from reading through all these posts!
Girlybodybuilder
04-03-2012, 05:12 PM
Think I might be setting myself up for failure somehow? I can grab my log and go through a couple weeks and give you an idea....
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