Cycling goals

[donnajo]

If you are not training to compete would this sound reasonable. Basically, if you don't have an offseason and inseason.

Diet for fat loss and lift to maintain muscle. 1-2 months

Eat at surplus and lift for strength and hypertrophy 1-2 months

Alternate these. Could you achieve muscle growth and strength but also be defined?

Looking for a way to live and look good year round.

[jaleena]

Unless you're being silly with your bulks, you'll need a lot less time dieting than bulking...but yes, alternating is a reasonable thing to do.

[donnajo]

Unless you're being silly with your bulks, you'll need a lot less time dieting than bulking...but yes, alternating is a reasonable thing to do.

I like the sound of that.

[Tony]

If you are not training to compete would this sound reasonable. Basically, if you don't have an offseason and inseason.

Diet for fat loss and lift to maintain muscle. 1-2 months

Eat at surplus and lift for strength and hypertrophy 1-2 months

Alternate these. Could you achieve muscle growth and strength but also be defined?

Looking for a way to live and look good year round.

I probably stretch the surplus to 3 months, but I suppose that is individual. You have the right idea though...

[donnajo]

So, maybe diet one month and strength/build for 3 months might be a good ratio. If I could maintain definition but be able to build on that I would be happy.

[donnajo]

:bump:Any more thoughts peeps? Discuss.

[Fitwolf]

the idea sounds good... this is likely what I would try to do if work didn't interfere.

So you want to keep definition during your bulking times, correct?

[donnajo]

Here is an idea.Or would this not work. Eat in a surplus on days you train and on off days eat less. Could you gain mass and strength with minimal fat. Or do you need to be at a surplus all the time for muscle gain? Would this be a way to do it without having a bulking cycle/ dieting cycle separate? Or no can do?

[donnajo]

the idea sounds good... this is likely what I would try to do if work didn't interfere.

So you want to keep definition during your bulking times, correct?

Yes, but I don't know if this is possible.

[Neely]

If you're wanting to keep BF levels from going up too much during your bulking, you'd have to do some pretty slow bulks. And then your dieting times would be shorter.

As far as having a surplus on training days, and a deficit on non training days, I think that would kinda all depend on how much of a surplus and how much of a deficit you're talking. Because, heck, by the end of the week you may end up at maintenance levels with your total cals :shrug: If you're just looking to do a slower bulk, it seems to me that it would be better to just go at a surplus on training days and then maintenance on off days.

[donnajo]

If you're wanting to keep BF levels from going up too much during your bulking, you'd have to do some pretty slow bulks. And then your dieting times would be shorter.

As far as having a surplus on training days, and a deficit on non training days, I think that would kinda all depend on how much of a surplus and how much of a deficit you're talking. Because, heck, by the end of the week you may end up at maintenance levels with your total cals :shrug: If you're just looking to do a slower bulk, it seems to me that it would be better to just go at a surplus on training days and then maintenance on off days.

How would you go about doing a slower bulk. Just slightly above maintenance. How long would the bulk be and how long should dieting be?

[Tony]

Here is an idea.Or would this not work. Eat in a surplus on days you train and on off days eat less. Could you gain mass and strength with minimal fat. Or do you need to be at a surplus all the time for muscle gain? Would this be a way to do it without having a bulking cycle/ dieting cycle separate? Or no can do?

That is a sound approach. The bottom line for not getting too fat while bulking for naturals is calorie cycling. You could do it:

- Within the day (ie. Intermittent Fasting)
- within the week (what you're proposing above)
- ~ every other week (Kelly Baggetts plan)
- Monthly or Bi monthly (your original proposal)

[Tony]

If you're wanting to keep BF levels from going up too much during your bulking, you'd have to do some pretty slow bulks. And then your dieting times would be shorter.

As far as having a surplus on training days, and a deficit on non training days, I think that would kinda all depend on how much of a surplus and how much of a deficit you're talking. Because, heck, by the end of the week you may end up at maintenance levels with your total cals :shrug: If you're just looking to do a slower bulk, it seems to me that it would be better to just go at a surplus on training days and then maintenance on off days.

True... Also consider this:

Lets say my training schedule is set up as follows:

Sunday - Heavy Lower Body
Monday - Off
........

It's a no brainer that cals should be high on Sunday, and low on Monday, since Monday is an off day. However, if Sunday's workout was really grueling and intensive, we would probably be short changing recovery by jumping to low calories on Monday. Something to think about...

One way around this is to do the Sunday workout as early in the day as possible so you have more time for eating...

[donnajo]

That is a sound approach. The bottom line for not getting too fat while bulking for naturals is calorie cycling. You could do it:

- Within the day (ie. Intermittent Fasting)
- within the week (what you're proposing above)
- ~ every other week (Kelly Baggetts plan)
- Monthly or Bi monthly (your original proposal)

Which approach would be best do you think and how do I set it up? I am trying to find something that is a way of life for me and maintain my definition and be able to build muslce and gain more strength. Am I trying to have my cake and eat it too?

[Noel Clark]

True... Also consider this:

Lets say my training schedule is set up as follows:

Sunday - Heavy Lower Body
Monday - Off
........

It's a no brainer that cals should be high on Sunday, and low on Monday, since Monday is an off day. However, if Sunday's workout was really grueling and intensive, we would probably be short changing recovery by jumping to low calories on Monday. Something to think about...

One way around this is to do the Sunday workout as early in the day as possible so you have more time for eating...

This is exactly what I was going to point out.

Neely when you say slow what do you mean. I don't think you want to pack it on right, so you really would start just a little above maintenance and then go from there. I think that it is hard to accept the fact that you will add SOME fat.

[donnajo]

True... Also consider this:

Lets say my training schedule is set up as follows:

Sunday - Heavy Lower Body
Monday - Off
........

It's a no brainer that cals should be high on Sunday, and low on Monday, since Monday is an off day. However, if Sunday's workout was really grueling and intensive, we would probably be short changing recovery by jumping to low calories on Monday. Something to think about...

One way around this is to do the Sunday workout as early in the day as possible so you have more time for eating...

Good point.:thumb:

[donnajo]

This is exactly what I was going to point out.

Neely when you say slow what do you mean. I don't think you want to pack it on right, so you really would start just a little above maintenance and then go from there. I think that it is hard to accept the fact that you will add SOME fat.


But , lets say you diet to a definition you could live with all the time. Now you want to work on strength and muscle gain. Is there a way to cycle so that you can gain but then diet again for short bursts to take it off so you are basically gaining and losing the same amount so you are maintaining. I know that is a run on sentence but I am not sure how to get out what I mean. Does this make sense?

[Noel Clark]

Yes, I get what your saying..

I do think that your gains will be slower this way...but very doable. I like what you were saying earlier about cycling your calories but still keeping at a surplus during your strength and size gain phase and then when you feel like you have put on your limit...then take a small dieting break. I would just make sure your limit wasn't like a 2lbs gain. :lol:

[Noel Clark]

From going through a bulk myself...I never thought eating at a surpus would really make THAT big of a difference...I was VERY VERY WRONG.

[donnajo]

Yes, I get what your saying..

I do think that your gains will be slower this way...but very doable. I like what you were saying earlier about cycling your calories but still keeping at a surplus during your strength and size gain phase and then when you feel like you have put on your limit...then take a small dieting break. I would just make sure your limit wasn't like a 2lbs gain. :lol:

Ok, so how would I go setting this up? Any suggestions. I could always tweak it depending on how it is working. I don't mind slow gains because I am not competing and this is a lifestyle for me. I am in no rush because I know it will happen. And strength is my main goal. But adding some muscle mass while maintaining a decent BF range would be good too.

[donnajo]

From going through a bulk myself...I never thought eating at a surpus would really make THAT big of a difference...I was VERY VERY WRONG.

How so?

[Cass]

Am I trying to have my cake and eat it too?
Yes.

:lol3:

[donnajo]

Yes.

:lol3:

Well, is there a way to have it just a little. :lol: work with me people. :hehe:

[donnajo]

:help: I am all confused now. Someone explain to me. Too many options or choices. I am trying to set up my plan.

[donnajo]

I think I am going to diet for a few weeks to get BF levels down to where I feel comfortable to bulk and then bulk for a few weeks with short diet breaks. Kind of go up a little and back down , up , down so I stay in the same range of BW and BF. Sound ok? I guess just try and go from there.

[Noel Clark]

I think I am going to diet for a few weeks to get BF levels down to where I feel comfortable to bulk and then bulk for a few weeks with short diet breaks. Kind of go up a little and back down , up , down so I stay in the same range of BW and BF. Sound ok? I guess just try and go from there.

a few weeks meaning what?
I would do it for at least a month(the bulk part)...Not a lot accomplished in 14 days. Also if you do it slowly you could still manage to gain 1/2-1 a week and that isn't bad at all.

[donnajo]

a few weeks meaning what?
I would do it for at least a month(the bulk part)...Not a lot accomplished in 14 days. Also if you do it slowly you could still manage to gain 1/2-1 a week and that isn't bad at all.

Ok, I got ya. Diet first, then bulk for a month or two and cycle in dieting to lose just what I gain and then start bulking again for 1-2 months , rinse and repeat.

Although in Kelly Baggetts book he has 14 days cycles followed by a few days dieting and then back into it . Are you familiar with that?

[Noel Clark]

Ok, I got ya. Diet first, then bulk for a month or two and cycle in dieting to lose just what I gain and then start bulking again for 1-2 months , rinse and repeat.

But do you really want to lose ALL that you have gained. Isn't the point to ADD muscle? I just mention that because I was asked as well, how long would it take to lose all the weight I gained during my bulk and the whole point was to put on some muscle...which in turn means SOME weight.


Although in Kelly Baggetts book he has 14 days cycles followed by a few days dieting and then back into it . Are you familiar with that?

Yes, I have to remind myself that you do not have a time frame ie--competition. I think anyway you decide to cycle it..be consistant and see how your body responds and then alter as you see the need.

[donnajo]

But do you really want to lose ALL that you have gained. Isn't the point to ADD muscle? I just mention that because I was asked as well, how long would it take to lose all the weight I gained during my bulk and the whole point was to put on some muscle...which in turn means SOME weight.



Yes, I have to remind myself that you do not have a time frame ie--competition. I think anyway you decide to cycle it..be consistant and see how your body responds and then alter as you see the need.


Ok, I think I get what you mean. I guess diet to lose bf but not so much that I lose the muscle. Basically, BW will go up because muscle weighs more so pay attention to BF% more than scale weight. Is that what you are saying.

[donnajo]

But do you really want to lose ALL that you have gained. Isn't the point to ADD muscle? I just mention that because I was asked as well, how long would it take to lose all the weight I gained during my bulk and the whole point was to put on some muscle...which in turn means SOME weight.



Yes, I have to remind myself that you do not have a time frame ie--competition. I think anyway you decide to cycle it..be consistant and see how your body responds and then alter as you see the need.


Ok, I think I get what you mean. I guess diet to lose bf but not so much that I lose the muscle. Basically, BW will go up permanently because muscle weighs more so pay attention to BF% more than scale weight. Is that what you are saying?

[Noel Clark]

Ok, I think I get what you mean. I guess diet to lose bf but not so much that I lose the muscle. Basically, BW will go up permanently because muscle weighs more so pay attention to BF% more than scale weight. Is that what you are saying?

Yes, I guess...I know that it is hard to accurately measure BF but if you are consistent in the way you do it :shrug:

[Cass]

Ok, I got ya. Diet first, then bulk for a month or two and cycle in dieting to lose just what I gain and then start bulking again for 1-2 months , rinse and repeat.

Although in Kelly Baggetts book he has 14 days cycles followed by a few days dieting and then back into it . Are you familiar with that?

Sweetie, do you think this much about everything? :unsure:

:lol3:

I didn't read all of this, but what goal is MOST important to you right now?

[donnajo]

Sweetie, do you think this much about everything? :unsure:

:lol3:

I didn't read all of this, but what goal is MOST important to you right now?

Yes. :lol: I overthink everything.

Strength is my main goal but I don't want to look like a hoss. :lol: That is why I thought bulk with intermittent dieting. I don't have a competition or a timeframe.

[Cass]

Yes. :lol: I overthink everything.

Strength is my main goal but I don't want to look like a hoss. :lol: That is why I thought bulk with intermittent dieting. I don't have a competition or a timeframe.

Wow, I'm sorry about that. :lol3:

Are you more or less happy with the way you look physique wise now?

[donnajo]

Wow, I'm sorry about that. :lol3:

Are you more or less happy with the way you look physique wise now?

:lol3:


I like the way I look now but wouldn't mind having a little more definition. With strength as my goal I am eating a bit more.

[Tony]

Which approach would be best do you think and how do I set it up? I am trying to find something that is a way of life for me and maintain my definition and be able to build muslce and gain more strength. Am I trying to have my cake and eat it too?

I personally like your original proposal the best. It doesn't have that one big limitation of cycling during the week which I outlined in a previous post.

Assuming your partitioning isn't retardedly bad, bulk for two months using your nonlinear concurrent approach. If you're making good gains AND body comp is in check, consider another month. Afterwards, diet for one month.

[donnajo]

I personally like your original proposal the best. It doesn't have that one big limitation of cycling during the week which I outlined in a previous post.

Assuming your partitioning isn't retardedly bad, bulk for two months using your nonlinear concurrent approach. If you're making good gains AND body comp is in check, consider another month. Afterwards, diet for one month.

Ok, I will try it. The worst is I see too much fat coming on I start dieting.

What would be the amount over maintenance I would want to eat. Maybe go 10%?

[Erik]

Ok, I will try it. The worst is I see too much fat coming on I start dieting.

What would be the amount over maintenance I would want to eat. Maybe go 10%?

Start there and base it on rate of gain and what's happening with your overall fat gain.

[Tony]

Ok, I will try it. The worst is I see too much fat coming on I start dieting.

What would be the amount over maintenance I would want to eat. Maybe go 10%?

That's always a good place to start. If gym performance improves, stick with it. If not, than up the cals by a bit...

[donnajo]

Thanks everyone. I start my bulk this week. :yippee:

[Cass]

Thanks everyone. I start my bulk this week. :yippee:

Whew.

Ok, on to your next question.

:lol:

:hug:

[donnajo]

Whew.

Ok, on to your next question.

:lol:

:hug:


:shrug: I never bulked before. I don't want to turn out like a beached whale or anything. :lol3:

[Cass]

:shrug: I never bulked before. I don't want to turn out like a beached whale or anything. :lol3:

You won't. You will be :lifter: