What am I doing wrong?

[Romedoggy]

Trying to get lean. Here's my workout:

U: HIIT cardio 20 min; legs
M: SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's
T: SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back
W: HIITcardio 20 min; legs
R: SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's
F:SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back
S: off

What am I doing wrong?

[mcv]

Diet is a big part of "getting lean". Can you post that as well?

[soontobefit]

Diet is a big part of "getting lean". Can you post that as well?

:yeahthat: Also, that split may not be optimal. Check out the thread on effective training. I too used to have a similar split and have found greater losses in fat and gains in strength by doing a upper/lower split.

[Erik]

Trying to get lean. Here's my workout:

U: HIIT cardio 20 min; legs
M: SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's
T: SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back
W: HIITcardio 20 min; legs
R: SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's
F:SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back
S: off

What am I doing wrong?

More training details. Post the details of each of the workouts. (sets, reps, exercises, etc).

[Romedoggy]

In a nut shell...here is what I'm doing. I was told in my last thread to eat more fish oil.

I've started eating clean. I started in Oct/Nov and lost 10 lbs., but then fell off the wagon during the holidays. Now I'm pretty determined to lose it.
I'm pretty confident that I know how to eat (Example: 5-6 small meals; lean protein starchy carb, lean protein starchy carb; lean protein fiberous carb;lean protein fiberous carb; lean protein fiberous carb). My protein is about 4oz., my starchy carbs are about 1/2 to 1 cup, and I go wild on the green veggies .
I think my weakness is in the gym, since I've been doing the same routine for about 5 years (crazy how that's not working anymore). I'm going to try to post some pics (if I can get the balls to), so you guys can see my progress and give me some advice. Still trying to find my way around the site (did I mention that I'm not so computer savvy...is this the enternet...just kidding)

[Romedoggy]

O.K....I have a confrence call here at work (if only they knew), then I'll post.

[fitmonkey]

Where does your chest training happen?

[Audrey]

In a nut shell...here is what I'm doing. I was told in my last thread to eat more fish oil.

I've started eating clean. I started in Oct/Nov and lost 10 lbs., but then fell off the wagon during the holidays. Now I'm pretty determined to lose it.
I'm pretty confident that I know how to eat (Example: 5-6 small meals; lean protein starchy carb, lean protein starchy carb; lean protein fiberous carb;lean protein fiberous carb; lean protein fiberous carb). My protein is about 4oz., my starchy carbs are about 1/2 to 1 cup, and I go wild on the green veggies .
I think my weakness is in the gym, since I've been doing the same routine for about 5 years (crazy how that's not working anymore). I'm going to try to post some pics (if I can get the balls to), so you guys can see my progress and give me some advice. Still trying to find my way around the site (did I mention that I'm not so computer savvy...is this the enternet...just kidding)

It is not just a matter of eating 'clean'. No matter how healthy you diet looks, if you eat too much for your goals (which are to lose weight/fat), then you will NOT get the results you want. What is more important first and foremost is HOW many calories you are getting during the day (and whether you created a caloric deficit or not) and then what your nutrition consists of (i.e. how many grams of protein, carbs and fat you are getting during the day). Could you post those totals (total calories for the day, total grams of protein, carbs and fat)?

And yes, fish oil is a good thing to take. How many capsules are you getting right now?

Also, your training program is less than optimal. It is not balanced (you are not doing any horizontal pushing movements, i.e. bench press or similar movements) and you are weight training 6 days a week, with no days off in between, which seems excessive especially when dieting. Also, you are devoting 2 training sessions a week to arms (as much as for legs and the other muscles you are working) while these are tiny muscles and you certainly don’t need 2 full training days a week to hit them.

Also, as asked above, post the exercises, number of sets and reps you do for each day.

[soontobefit]

It is not just a matter of eating 'clean'. No matter how healthy you diet looks, if you eat too much for your goals (which are to lose weight/fat), then you will NOT get the results you want. What is more important first and foremost is HOW many calories you are getting during the day (and whether you created a caloric deficit or not) and then what your nutrition consists of (i.e. how many grams of protein, carbs and fat you are getting during the day). Could you post those totals (total calories for the day, total grams of protein, carbs and fat)?


:yeahthat: again....I spent so many years eating "clean" and still not getting where I wanted to be. I am still not quite there yet, but now I am under the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing (ahem, Thunder) and I am amazed at how my body has changed. You really gotta know how much (and what) is going in!

[Romedoggy]

All sets are 5s and reps are 12-15, except legs. I usually do 10
• HIIT cardio 20 min; legs
o Squats
o Leg Extensions
o Dead leg lift
• SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's
o Arm curls(dumb bells)
o Arm curls (wavy bar…don’t know the real name)
o Kickbacks
o Pull downs
• SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back (I might have just made up these exercise names Sorry!
o Military presses
o Front raises
o Side raises
• HIIT cardio 20 min; legs(same as above)
• SS cardio 20 min; bi's and tri's(same as above)
• SS cardio 20 min; shoulders and back(same as above)
• OFF

[The13ig13adWolf]

details of your diet would be better. what you listed above is very vague.

the thought of HIIT and legs on the same day makes me hurt all over...

[Romedoggy]

This might be too much info here, but...I don't work my chest because I have breast implants. I’m scared they will turn into hard Franken-boobies

[Meechel]

This might be too much info here, but...I don't work my chest because I have breast implants. I’m scared they will turn into hard Franken-boobies

There are MANY women here with implant and they all train.

Also 12-15 of anything is too high from what I read unless you are doing a depletion workout.

I am sure Erik or someone will pipe in but 8-10 and lifting heavier I think would be better.

[Romedoggy]

I haven't been counting calories, but I will going forward. I haven't been taking fish oil, but Udo's essential oil blend (I think this fish oil).
Trying to figure out a workout. I know my routine is jacked-up :)! I'm that girl in the gym who ACTS like she knows what she's doing. That why I need help.

[Romedoggy]

What would you recomend to balance my routine?

[Romedoggy]

You want specifics?
Meal 1:
6 egg whites
1/2 c long cooking oatmeal
Meal 2:
Protein shake w/ oatmeal and 1/2 banana tsb. natural pbutter
Meal 3:
chicken breast
1/2 s. pot
or green veggie
Meal 4: protein shake
Meal 5:
tuna
green veggie
salad
Meal 6:
If hungry protein shake

[Cindy Day]

Start tracking your calories on something like FitDay (http://fitday.com). Find out how much your eating in total as well as how much of that is protein, carbs and fats.

You can check out the effective training sticky for optimal exercise routines. Currently it looks like your doing a lot of sets and very high rep.

[Cindy Day]

How long have you been eating this way since the Holidays? Did you take measurments-- do you know if you've lost any bf since you've been eating this way or are you strickly going by the scale?

[Romedoggy]

Can I attach a spreadsheet? I can show you how I'm tracking and what I've been keeping track of. I'm just a computer dummy. NO CLUE what I'm doing here, so please ignore the lack of computer savvy.
As far as eating I was doing really well before the holidays, then I just lost it.

[jaleena]

It looks like you're doing your cardio before your lifting. Is this the case, or is it just written first?

[Romedoggy]

Yeah...I wake up at 4am and workout before going into work each day. It's the only time I don't have a toddler hanging around my knees. I do cardio on an empty stomach, then do my weights right after. I've read Thunder's opinion on this and I'm thinking about changing that up.
Any advice? I'm reading through Thunders effective training post, but I'm still trying to understand everything I'm reading.

[Erik]

Yeah...I wake up at 4am and workout before going into work each day. It's the only time I don't have a toddler hanging around my knees. I do cardio on an empty stomach, then do my weights right after. I've read Thunder's opinion on this and I'm thinking about changing that up.
Any advice? I'm reading through Thunders effective training post, but I'm still trying to understand everything I'm reading.

Bad, bad, bad.

1. Weights before cardio.

2. Eat something first, even if it's just a protein shake and some easy carbs.

[Romedoggy]

I knew I'd get scolded! What are easy carbs? Do they have a bad reputation? Just kidding, but really what are they?

[Meechel]

I would never do cardio before weights .....yes I have Erik as my trainer but even before I would never do cardio before weights.

I have done and continue to do my cardio after because of time constraints....I would rather my cardio be a little less effective then my strength gains on weights be hindered.

[Romedoggy]

You mention after weight training as opposed to what...later in the day? Sorry...I'm confused...

[Meechel]

Ideally they should be split up but I can't do that with my daughter, work and other time constraints.

Like HIIT in morning and weights at night but just giving you an example.

[Audrey]

You mention after weight training as opposed to what...later in the day? Sorry...I'm confused...

Do your weight training and then cardio after that. OR if your schedule allows, do weights in the morning and cardio later in the day. Doing cardio first means that you are already tired by the time you are starting your weight training, thereby compromising your weight training session (i.e. not lifting as heavy as you would otherwise if you didn’t do cardio first). You also have a higher risk of injury if you already start your weight training session tired. Weights should always take precedence over cardio in your program.

And Udo’s oil is different than fish oil. It is a blend of oils, including flax oil. It doesn’t replace fish oils.

As for easy carbs to take in before your workout in the morning… If you have time to eat before your workout, your first meal is fine. If time is an easy, start sipping on a whey protein + Gatorade shake before your workout.

As others have mentioned, you are doing too many sets with way too many reps. A few sets of 12 reps are fine, but you need a heavy lifting component in your training, something to the order of 5-8 reps. I would also get rid of the arm day, as I mentioned earlier you don’t need to dedicate an entire day (and especially not twice a week) o working your arms. And I would add some chest exercises. Just because you have implants doesn’t mean you can’t work your chest. Many people have implants on this site (me included) and that doesn’t prevent them from doing exercises such as flat barbell bench press, incline bench press, dumbbell bench press… I would also add some rowing exercises for your back as you aren’t doing any currently (seated cable rows, bent-over barbell rows…).

You may want to read the Effective Training thread and post a revised workout plan based on that.

[Romedoggy]

Great advice. Thanks Audrey. You have been really helpful. I'll work on it today, and then try to post first thing tomorrow am. I've started laying out my "new routine", but I'm still in the process of looking up some exercises to see if they are what I want to start with. BTW- All the postings were locked last night when I tried to get on. Is that normal, or was it some kind of system upgrade night?

[Erik]

BTW- All the postings were locked last night when I tried to get on. Is that normal, or was it some kind of system upgrade night?

:uhuh:

Really? What time was that at?

[Romedoggy]

Gosh, not 100% sure...maybe 8-8:30pm.

[Romedoggy]

O.k... I looked up the compound vs. isolation exercises, just need some clarification:

Examples of Compounds:
Shoulders: Military Press, Hang Clean and Press, Arnold Press
Arms: Close-Grip Chin-Up (w/palms facing toward your face), Dips, Close-Grip Pushup, Twisting Dumbbell Curl
Legs: Barbell Squat, Deadlift, Lunges
Back: Chin-Up, Pull-Down, Deadlift, Row
Chest: Push-Up, Dips, Bench Press (look Audrey, this one is just for you :))

Not sure how to split them. Audrey mentioned that I don't want to work my arms as much as I was. So...my question is when do you do the compound and then when do you do the isolation? What might a week look like? Would this example make sense?

M:Upper Compound
T:Lower Compound
W:Off; HIIT cardio
R:Upper Isolation
F:Lower Isolation
S:Off; HIIT cardio
U:Upper Compound

or would I mix it like...

M:Upper Compound/Isolation
T:Lower Compound/Isolation
W:Off; HIIT cardio
R:Upper Isolation/Compund
F:Lower Isolation/Compund
S:Off; HIIT cardio
U:Upper Compound/Isolation

If I'm trying to burn fat and lean out...would I be doing enough cardio? Would I still want to add SS cardio? I'm also assuming I would reevaluate my plan every 6 weeks. Am I anywhere close?

[Audrey]

Isee several potential problems with both training schedules that you posted above:

First problem is that you don't have any off day at all during the week. You should have at least one day off during the week - and by off, I mean no training and no HIIT. You can walk if you want, but basically you should mainly rest.

The other issue with the plan you posted is that you do either weight training or HIIT every day, both of which are CNS (now that you know the acronym :wink) intensive. I would put the HIIT sessions on the same day you do legs, increasing the number of recovery days that you have during the week.

I would also only train upper and lower body 2 times a week each.

A revised training schedule could look like this (you can modify it a bit to fit your week better if needed):

M - Upper Body (can incorporate compound exercises + isolation exercises)
T - A.M. Lower Body / P.M. HIIT (or you can do the opposite: A.M: HIIT / P.M.: Lower Body)
Wednesday - steady state cardio session (30-45 minutes)
Thursday - Upper Body (can incorporate compound exercises + isolation exercises)
Friday - Lower Body - A.M. Lower Body / P.M. HIIT (or you can do the opposite: A.M: HIIT / P.M.: Lower Body)
Saturday - steady state cardio session (30-45 minutes) (optional)
Sunday - Off day

[Noel Clark]

:yeahthat:

Erik likes to call some of the isolation work "fluff" work. It kinda caps off your workout. You are hitting your bis and tris when you do the compound movements for upper body, so they don't need as much as you were doing.

[Audrey]

As for examples of compounds:

'Shoulders' / Upper vertical pushing: Military Press, Hang Clean and Press, Push Press
Legs: Back Squat, Front Squat, Conventional Deadlift, Romanian Deadlift
Back / Upper horizontal pulling and upper vertical pulling: Chin-Up/Pull-up, Pulldowns, different row variations (bent-over barbell row, seated cable row, t-bar row...)
'Chest' / Upper horizontal pushing: Dips, Bench Press (flat, incline...)

Typically, in an upper/lower split, you would want to include 2 compound movements (say bench press and rows) and then 2-3 isolation exercises.

The post below gives you some further ideas:


I thought I already posted this when we first got here but I can't find it and it's not in the sticky so I'm posting it again so I can add it :dry:

Ok...4 day upper/lower split...lots of way to do this:

day 1 - upper body heavy
day 2 - lower body light
day 3 - upper body light
day 4 - lower body heavy

or

day 1 - upper horizontal push/pull (chest pressing & back rows)
day 2 - lower quad dominant (squats)
day 3 - upper vertical push/pull (shoulder pressing & lat pull variations)
day 4 - lower hip dominant (deadlifts)

or

day 1 - heavy upper horizontal / light vertical
day 2 - heavy quad / light ham
day 3 - heavy upper vertical / light horizontal
day 4 - heavy ham / light quad

When choosing exercises....stick w/ the compound movements for all your heavy work....for the light work, depending on what it is, you can do a mixture of compound or isolation work. For instance....on heavy horizontal and light vertical as in example 3, I'd do heavy BB flat bench, but I'd choose either overhead DB presses or maybe DB laterals for the shoulder work

If you feel you must work arms directly...and I don't think it's all that necessary....then stick one biceps exercise in on one upper body day and one triceps exercise in on the other.

When choosing the number of exercises and rep ranges...I think 4 different exercises per day is good....5 might be pushing it...but it could work.

Rep ranges will depend on which example you go w/...for your heavy compound movements....stick w/ reps under 6...some good sets x reps examples...5x5, 6x4, 8x3, 4x6. For your light work...rep ranges should be a little higher ...in the 8-12 range.

So....for example...using split # 3, it might look like this:

day 1 - bent BB rows, 5x5 .....flat BB press, 5x5 .....lat pulls, 3x8 ....db overhead press, 3x8 ...and if you want to work arms...bi's 3x10

day 2 - full squat, 5x5 ....leg press or split squat, 3x8 .....leg curls, 2-3x10-12

See also this thread (which the quote above is taken from):
http://www.leanbodiesfitness.net/showthread.php?t=2374&highlight=upper%2Flower+split

[Romedoggy]

So...should I do all compund, and then add "fluff" where I feel I need extra attention...say...my flapping triceps?

Example:
Arms: Close-Grip Chin-Up (w/palms facing toward your face), Dips, Close-Grip Pushup, Twisting Dumbbell Curl
then tricep kickbacks for my wings?

[Noel Clark]

So...should I do all compund, and then add "fluff" where I feel I need extra attention...say...my flapping triceps?

Example:
Arms: Close-Grip Chin-Up (w/palms facing toward your face), Dips, Close-Grip Pushup, Twisting Dumbbell Curl
then tricep kickbacks for my wings?

Check out the post above yours that Audrey posted. That is good...or there is a full body workout in the stickies as well. Your "flapping" triceps...I am guessing that is fat. That will not go away with more tricep work. That will go away with better nutrition. I think it is great that you are really trying to learn a better way.

[Romedoggy]

Halleluiah! The heavens just opened and the angels are singing! I'm going to use this, and then build off of it! THANK YOU AUDREY! Now the pressure is on to start my fat to fab journal!

[Romedoggy]

Without you guys...I would still be pounding my head with a dumbell out of frustration. I'd still be working out like mad, and seeing nothing happening!
I can't wait to start working out with this plan.

Now I just need to understand how I'm getting in my own way on the nutrition side of things and I'll be set. I've been tracking my calories, protein, carbs, and fat. Now I just need to set better goals, and keep in touch with you guys and see what happens! I just can only learn so much at one time, then stuff starts dumping out the other side, kwim (How cool is that? I used an acronym. Thanks Ali for helping me in my path to coolness)

[smuggie]

Glad you found us, Romedoggy. :D

[Romedoggy]

BTW- Where are the stickies (sp?) that everyone is talking about? Is that like an attachment?

[Ali]

BTW- Where are the stickies (sp?) that everyone is talking about? Is that like an attachment?

The stickies are at the beginning of each section. For instance...training....the first one is called, "Constructing a Full Body Routine" They don't move, so they don't get lost.

You will NEED to pay particular attention to diet. THAT is the key to fat loss. The weights will help you hold your muscle while you diet. The cardio will aid in dumping some fat, too. But by far...your diet is probably the most important thing. Your workouts will be set up so that you don't get overtrained, too. That is another concern when you are dieting, especially.

[Romedoggy]

O.k...where is the best place to go on the site for diet info I can research? I've seen some postes by Ripped Envy that have been helpful, but I'm especially interested in maronutrient type data. I've read the I should have 1 gramx of protein/carbs per lb of body weight, but other than that no clue.

[Erik]

O.k...where is the best place to go on the site for diet info I can research? I've seen some postes by Ripped Envy that have been helpful, but I'm especially interested in maronutrient type data. I've read the I should have 1 gramx of protein/carbs per lb of body weight, but other than that no clue.

You could start a thread in the Beginner Training and Nutrition forum with your specific dietary questions.