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Kara
05-23-2006, 12:33 PM
I know the answer to this I think, but I need to hear it again. Full squats are better on the knees than parallel squats right? I am asking this beccause over a month ago, I injured my knee. It has been getting better recently and I have been seeing a chiro that specializes in ART. Recently, he has had me doing partial squats for rehab purposes. Somehow in conversation last night, I said that I normally full squat and he looked at me like I was crazy and implied that might be how I injured my knee. When I rambled on about all the info that I had learned from you guys, he didn't look convinced, but only said that maybe my form was an issue. Since my knee is improving, I am squating somewhat deeper, but no where near a full squat. I don't want to do too much too soon and injure my knee all over again. But after all of this rehabilitation, full squats are the best way to go right? Not parallel? Does anyone have links to research on this that I can show the doctor?

Mizuno
05-23-2006, 12:57 PM
I have a friend with a knee injury and she cant do squats at all or it pops back out. I would follow your Drs advisement :)

Sunshine
05-23-2006, 01:11 PM
It depends on what you did to your knee. I would recommend seeing an ortho MD to rule out any problems, and if structurally you're OK, there's no reason you can't progress back to full squats, paying very close attention to how you feel.

Kara
05-23-2006, 01:29 PM
Thanks. I saw an ortho and was doing PT, which wasn't doing a thing to help me. I was diagnosed with Patello Femoral Syndrome, which is pretty much an overuse injury. From what I have read about it, causes can be from weak VMO, tight IT band, hill training, and like I said, overuse. I am totally following this doctor's advisement, since I have improved greatly thanks to him. I guess since he reacted so oddly to squatting so deep, it made me question whether or not it is the right thing to do.

Swiss
05-23-2006, 02:16 PM
Kara, hope your knee heals quickly.

As far as full squats being better on the knees, I do remember (I think) reading something, somewhere about that. Perhaps it was on Tom Venuto's website???

MicheleSC
05-23-2006, 02:52 PM
John Berardi's website has info about full squats and why they aren't bad :

http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/jan312003/na_myths.htm

My husband is also going to PT for his knee - he has a small tear in his meniscus and wearing of the knee cap (maybe the same thing as OP). He doesn't do squats at all because he says they hurt his knees and he hasn't done them for a long time. When he went for PT I guess he said something to the physical therapists about his wife (me!) saying that full squats were good or that I do them, and they all told him how terrible full squats are for your knees...etc. I sent him the link above, but he usually won't believe me if some other 'authority' contradicts me even if I provide some sort of back up. I told him to keep NOT doing full squats and I'll keep doing them (although not while 8 months pregnant) :)

Sunshine
05-23-2006, 03:12 PM
I AM a physical therapist and I do full squats. I've also had 2 surgeries on my left knee and 1 on my right. Since I've been doing full squats my legs have gotten stronger than ever, and my knees hurt less.
Patello-femoral syndrome is really a "garbage can" term that doesn't really tell you anything. Listen to your body, use ice and anti-inflammatories as needed, and have at it!

PowerManDL
05-23-2006, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Kara@May 23 2006, 08:33 AM
I know the answer to this I think, but I need to hear it again. Full squats are better on the knees than parallel squats right? I am asking this beccause over a month ago, I injured my knee. It has been getting better recently and I have been seeing a chiro that specializes in ART. Recently, he has had me doing partial squats for rehab purposes. Somehow in conversation last night, I said that I normally full squat and he looked at me like I was crazy and implied that might be how I injured my knee. When I rambled on about all the info that I had learned from you guys, he didn't look convinced, but only said that maybe my form was an issue. Since my knee is improving, I am squating somewhat deeper, but no where near a full squat. I don't want to do too much too soon and injure my knee all over again. But after all of this rehabilitation, full squats are the best way to go right? Not parallel? Does anyone have links to research on this that I can show the doctor?
Using the hip (glute/hamstring) musculature to take the load off the knees at their weakest point in the ROM certainly sounds like a good idea to me, rather than using them to brake the weight.

I tore my right knee up pretty badly in an accident almost two years ago. Not sure what happened exactly since I didn't go to the doctor, but it had all the symptoms of a very bad sprain to the point that I could barely flex the knee at all.

I rehabbed it using full squats. Body weight at first, then progressing back into barbell weight.

Kara
05-23-2006, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 23 2006, 01:20 PM
Using the hip (glute/hamstring) musculature to take the load off the knees at their weakest point in the ROM certainly sounds like a good idea to me, rather than using them to brake the weight.

I tore my right knee up pretty badly in an accident almost two years ago. Not sure what happened exactly since I didn't go to the doctor, but it had all the symptoms of a very bad sprain to the point that I could barely flex the knee at all.

I rehabbed it using full squats. Body weight at first, then progressing back into barbell weight.
That is really interesting. Did you only squat when you weren't in pain? I haven't tried a full squat without weight, because I was waiting for the all clear to do so.

PowerManDL
05-23-2006, 07:29 PM
I didn't push through the pain really, more like gradually easing into a full ROM. The joint was very stiff, and it hurt to move it, but I could sorta work up to it by increasing the ROM very slowly.

I have no idea where these alleged therapists get their information...the knee is the only joint in the body they seem to have no problem putting through a partial range of motion, as if that's somehow better for it.

Scratch that, I know where it came from, the fact that shearing forces on the knee are greatest at and within a few degrees of parallel...but that's all the more reason to let the hips take over the load.

Otherwise you're either putting it all on the knee where it's weakest, or at best detraining 3/4 of the ROM by doing quarter squats. Neither approach is very sound.

momoftwins
05-23-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Kara+May 23 2006, 02:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kara &#064; May 23 2006, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL@May 23 2006, 01:20 PM
Using the hip (glute/hamstring) musculature to take the load off the knees at their weakest point in the ROM certainly sounds like a good idea to me, rather than using them to brake the weight.

I tore my right knee up pretty badly in an accident almost two years ago. Not sure what happened exactly since I didn&#39;t go to the doctor, but it had all the symptoms of a very bad sprain to the point that I could barely flex the knee at all.

I rehabbed it using full squats. Body weight at first, then progressing back into barbell weight.
That is really interesting. Did you only squat when you weren&#39;t in pain? I haven&#39;t tried a full squat without weight, because I was waiting for the all clear to do so. [/b][/quote]
I had patella femoral syndrome coupled with thickening plica under the knee cap, fun stuff :dry: . The best thing you can do is strengthen your legs, get them really strong and that will help the knee stay solid and in its track, good luck.

Kara
05-24-2006, 12:48 PM
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I am going to continue doing what I can. When I become totally pain free in the full squat position, I will begin doing them again without weight and gradually increase the weight.

Mols
05-24-2006, 04:56 PM
Is it harder to full squat more weight than squatting with the bar behind your neck? ( Bare with me, I cannot think of what that squats called-brain fart&#33; ) Because I tried full squats with just the 45 BB today and could do it, but adding any weight was out of the question right now, when I normally can squat 85lbs the other way (weak, I know)...

Christine_99
05-24-2006, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by milgurl@May 24 2006, 10:56 AM
Is it harder to full squat more weight than squatting with the bar behind your neck? ( Bare with me, I cannot think of what that squats called-brain fart&#33; ) Because I tried full squats with just the 45 BB today and could do it, but adding any weight was out of the question right now, when I normally can squat 85lbs the other way (weak, I know)...
Full Squats the bar is behind your neck. Are you thinking of front squats?

Mols
05-24-2006, 05:52 PM
Oh crap yea&#33; I totally read the header wrong...I thought this was talking about front squats&#33; (like i said im braindead today) :huh: haha anyway can someone still answer it? Meaning front squats, do they tend to be more difficult to squat as much weight as a full?

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 06:01 PM
Yes.

Chelsinator
05-24-2006, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by milgurl@May 24 2006, 11:52 AM
Oh crap yea&#33; I totally read the header wrong...I thought this was talking about front squats&#33; (like i said im braindead today) :huh: haha anyway can someone still answer it? Meaning front squats, do they tend to be more difficult to squat as much weight as a full?
My front squat S-U-C-K-S compared to my squat.

Full squat = 205-215 right now

Front squat = 105 :dry: :mad: :cheeky:

That is more brutal than most, but yeah, it is tougher to front squat.

Mols
05-24-2006, 09:51 PM
wow&#33; You can squat a lot I feel like such a WEAK ass&#33;&#33;

Chelsinator
05-25-2006, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by milgurl@May 24 2006, 03:51 PM
wow&#33; You can squat a lot I feel like such a WEAK ass&#33;&#33;
I&#39;m willing to bet you&#39;re not a beast like I am :dry:

Inatic
05-25-2006, 11:28 AM
I find them harder.

Front squats are tougher for me because of the grip. It was a new exercise for me, though im slowing getting a better grip on the bar, which has allowed me thus far to increase my wt to 130# on them (and going higher next time)

Mols
05-25-2006, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Chelsinator@May 24 2006, 07:16 PM
I&#39;m willing to bet you&#39;re not a beast like I am :dry:
Im willing to bet your not a beast&#33;&#33; ;)

Chelsinator
05-25-2006, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by milgurl@May 25 2006, 07:55 AM
Im willing to bet your not a beast&#33;&#33; ;)
:lol: I&#39;ll put money down that you&#39;re wrong ;)


:unsure:

jaleena
05-26-2006, 03:09 AM
Front squat=150, back squat=195. Probably not as much of a difference as there should be, statistically speaking. Front squats are much harder to maintain form on beyond just a few reps...big tendency for me to drop a shoulder, round my upper back a smidge, nothing major, but enough to dump the bar onto my arm on one side...bad news.

Tony
05-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by jaleena@May 25 2006, 10:09 PM
Front squat=150, back squat=195. Probably not as much of a difference as there should be, statistically speaking. Front squats are much harder to maintain form on beyond just a few reps...big tendency for me to drop a shoulder, round my upper back a smidge, nothing major, but enough to dump the bar onto my arm on one side...bad news.
That sounds right to me. Poliquin has said that one&#39;s full front squat should be ~80% of one&#39;s full back squat. With that being said, I&#39;m willing to bet that you have ample quads. :)