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CraveMuscle
05-24-2006, 02:51 AM
This may be a dumb-ass question, but when I do SS cardio on my low carb days/no training days . . . would incline treadmill vs. revolving steps vs. recumbant bike be better at preserving as much muscle mass as possible while pre-comp? meaning, would one more than the other be more likely to stress the legs detrimentally, given the same intensity for all?

Pearly
05-24-2006, 02:55 AM
I have been told that incline treadmill, at a steady moderate fast walk, is the best for preserving muscle mass.
My trainer says that bike is fine too- just don't run. Ever.

CraveMuscle
05-24-2006, 02:57 AM
I *heart* Pearly. :love:

Erik
05-24-2006, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by Pearly@May 23 2006, 10:55 PM
I have been told that incline treadmill, at a steady moderate fast walk, is the best for preserving muscle mass.
My trainer says that bike is fine too- just don't run. Ever.
So sprint intervals are bad for preserving muscle?

CraveMuscle
05-24-2006, 03:04 AM
I thought she was referring to ss running?

but do you have an opinion? you mentioned that your legs have gotten smaller from all the ss bike, but is that specifically from the bike or b/c of more ss cardio in general plus dieting?

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:05 AM
I'd say the step mill would be the worst.

I'd be partial to the treadmill if given the option, but I think it's going to be more an issue of how intense the session is, as opposed to the chosen modality.

Pearly
05-24-2006, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Thunder+May 23 2006, 08:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunder @ May 23 2006, 08:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pearly@May 23 2006, 10:55 PM
I have been told that incline treadmill, at a steady moderate fast walk, is the best for preserving muscle mass.
My trainer says that bike is fine too- just don&#39;t run. Ever.
So sprint intervals are bad for preserving muscle? [/b][/quote]
I was told that running is bad.

Period. Too much tearing/ muscle damage. I don&#39;t remember the fancy science words (LMAO- considering who I am talking to, that probably isn&#39;t the best defense&#33;)

It makes me happy, since I hate running.

I would definetly say that steppers of any kind would be the worst.

CraveMuscle
05-24-2006, 03:09 AM
great to know. I did a freakin&#39; lot of step mill last year for pre-comp. at high intensity too. :sad:

thank you for your thoughts. I trust you since you obviously know what you are doing. the results speak for themselves.

and Pearly, you know I love your thoughts too. :p

MichelleS
05-24-2006, 03:10 AM
I hate the stair mill with a passion&#33; :yell: :cheeky:

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:08 PM
I was told that running is bad.

Period. Too much tearing/ muscle damage. I don&#39;t remember the fancy science words (LMAO- considering who I am talking to, that probably isn&#39;t the best defense&#33;)
Disagree.

But that&#39;s ok

I don&#39;t run, outside of some sprint sessions, either.

SS running is death.

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by Pearly+May 23 2006, 11:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pearly @ May 23 2006, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunder@May 23 2006, 08:58 PM
So sprint intervals are bad for preserving muscle?
I was told that running is bad.

Period. Too much tearing/ muscle damage. I don&#39;t remember the fancy science words (LMAO- considering who I am talking to, that probably isn&#39;t the best defense&#33;)

It makes me happy, since I hate running.

I would definetly say that steppers of any kind would be the worst. [/b][/quote]
If I were in a severe precontest deficit, I doubt I&#39;d be doing many sprint intervals myself.

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 23 2006, 11:12 PM
If I were in a severe precontest deficit, I doubt I&#39;d be doing many sprint intervals myself.
Precontest deficits don&#39;t have to be severe, and there&#39;s still nothing wrong with sprints in that case.

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 03:14 AM
As long as you reduce the strength volume on leg work.

MichelleS
05-24-2006, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 23 2006, 11:11 PM
SS running is death.
I have seen a guy jump on the treadmill start running and then jump of like 6 mins later I look over at the machne and he rana freakin mile in 6 mins. :suicide: but that what the PJ&#39;s do they run and run all day that and jump from planes and run with there parashute on.

Total :ban:

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 23 2006, 11:14 PM
As long as you reduce the strength volume on leg work.
Exactly.

Pearly
05-24-2006, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 23 2006, 09:15 PM
Exactly.
Would you want to do that though?

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:23 PM
Would you want to do that though?
Given that dieting is all about muscle preservation and not growth, yep.

Pearly
05-24-2006, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 23 2006, 09:25 PM
Given that dieting is all about muscle preservation and not growth, yep.
Good point.

Isn&#39;t it possible to still build while you are dieting, if you are just below maintenance? Difficult, but possible?

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:33 PM
Good point.

Isn&#39;t it possible to still build while you are dieting, if you are just below maintenance? Difficult, but possible?
1. Detrained
2. Beginner
3. Drugs

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 03:48 AM
Why exactly is the body going to spend precious calories that it needs to survive in order to build a tissue that is very costly metabolically, especially in someone already carrying significant muscle?

Hint: without drugs to essentially force it into that state, it won&#39;t happen.

Pearly
05-24-2006, 03:53 AM
Ok then. Good.
I had this argument with someone the other day, and I win. :)

What does &#39;detrained&#39; mean?

Erik
05-24-2006, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:53 PM
Ok then. Good.
I had this argument with someone the other day, and I win. :)

What does &#39;detrained&#39; mean?
Coming back after a layoff.

Blondell
05-24-2006, 03:59 AM
Good thread :)

chantilly
05-24-2006, 01:22 PM
Why is SS running death? Death for muscles?

Erik
05-24-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by chantilly@May 24 2006, 09:22 AM
Why is SS running death? Death for muscles?
Too much leg pounding for the most part, unless other aspects of the program are adjusted for it. Even then, you have to watch it when you&#39;re in a deficit.

Still though, I think it&#39;ll be more an issue of intensity than modality.

Carrie
05-24-2006, 01:38 PM
So if the stepper, treadmill and running aren&#39;t optimum choices for SS cardio, what would be a good choice for someone doing two weekly HIIT sessions and one weekly leg training session?

Erik
05-24-2006, 02:23 PM
Nothing wrong with the treadmill.

Tony
05-24-2006, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Thunder+May 23 2006, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunder &#064; May 23 2006, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:33 PM
Good point.

Isn&#39;t it possible to still build while you are dieting, if you are just below maintenance? Difficult, but possible?
1. Detrained
2. Beginner
3. Drugs [/b][/quote]
Is it possible even WITH drugs?

Isn&#39;t a caloric surplus a requirement for increasing muscle with or without drugs?

EDIT:

With drugs you&#39;ll have WAY better partitioning. Therefore, most of the excess will go towards muscle....

LisaBunny
05-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Thunder+May 23 2006, 10:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Thunder @ May 23 2006, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pearly@May 23 2006, 11:08 PM
I was told that running is bad.

Period. Too much tearing/ muscle damage. I don&#39;t remember the fancy science words (LMAO- considering who I am talking to, that probably isn&#39;t the best defense&#33;)
Disagree.

But that&#39;s ok

I don&#39;t run, outside of some sprint sessions, either.

SS running is death. [/b][/quote]
So glad to hear you say this. I was told "running is the best thing for you" years ago. I always sucked at running, and hated every second. Good to know it&#39;s not necessary :)

Kathryn
05-24-2006, 03:21 PM
So you were talking about intensity of SS running...at what intensity would be the best bet for keeping muscle? is there a certain heart rate or percieved effort?

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Tony@May 24 2006, 10:49 AM
Is it possible even WITH drugs?

Isn&#39;t a caloric surplus a requirement for increasing muscle with or without drugs?

EDIT:

With drugs you&#39;ll have WAY better partitioning. Therefore, most of the excess will go towards muscle....
It is, but anabolics alone won&#39;t do it.

You&#39;d need something like:

500-1000mg test
100mg EOD tren
75-100mcg T3
100-200mcg Clen
5mg bromocriptine or 1-2mg of pergolide
10-20 IU of insulin wouldn&#39;t hurt
Same for 4-5 IU of GH

In sort, you&#39;d have to be on a lot of shit, as well as having the diet/training on point for it to occur.

Though the initial bouts of drug-use are similar to newbie gains anyway; the longer you stay on, the more the body adapts to the new hormonal state.

janey
05-24-2006, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 24 2006, 11:06 AM
You&#39;d need something like:

500-1000mg test
100mg EOD tren
75-100mcg T3
100-200mcg Clen
5mg bromocriptine or 1-2mg of pergolide
10-20 IU of insulin wouldn&#39;t hurt
Same for 4-5 IU of GH


Something like? :uuhh:


:lol:

tamlvscarl
05-24-2006, 05:45 PM
Is the stepmill bad only when ur precomp? I do the stepmill for my HIIT and for SS cardio. I thught if anything, it was helping to build muscle, not tear it down?? I am not precomp --just trying to lean out and build muscle....

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 05:49 PM
Put simplistically, the process that builds muscle involves tearing it down.

Growth occurs with sufficient nutrients and time.

See point about sufficient nutrients to understand why this doesn&#39;t happen on a diet.

Erik
05-24-2006, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL+May 24 2006, 12:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PowerManDL @ May 24 2006, 12:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tony@May 24 2006, 10:49 AM
Is it possible even WITH drugs?

Isn&#39;t a caloric surplus a requirement for increasing muscle with or without drugs?

EDIT:

With drugs you&#39;ll have WAY better partitioning. Therefore, most of the excess will go towards muscle....
It is, but anabolics alone won&#39;t do it.

You&#39;d need something like:

500-1000mg test
100mg EOD tren
75-100mcg T3
100-200mcg Clen
5mg bromocriptine or 1-2mg of pergolide
10-20 IU of insulin wouldn&#39;t hurt
Same for 4-5 IU of GH

In sort, you&#39;d have to be on a lot of shit, as well as having the diet/training on point for it to occur.

Though the initial bouts of drug-use are similar to newbie gains anyway; the longer you stay on, the more the body adapts to the new hormonal state. [/b][/quote]
You&#39;re saying this is what&#39;s required to build muscle and lose fat in terms of drug usage?

PowerManDL
05-24-2006, 06:12 PM
No, I&#39;m saying that&#39;s what would be required, up to the bromo, to ensure it could happen in somebody that&#39;s well trained.

Even a low dose of test will do it to an extent, but it&#39;s not especially noticable....as I said, it&#39;s like kickstarting newbie gains. You&#39;ve created a new state in the body, and it will adapt to it in time.

By adding in the T3, clen, and bromo, you handle the other aspects of partitioning to help it along.

&#39;slin and GH are just there because they rock.

jrb1980
05-24-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by tamlvscarl@May 24 2006, 05:45 PM
Is the stepmill bad only when ur precomp? I do the stepmill for my HIIT and for SS cardio. I thught if anything, it was helping to build muscle, not tear it down?? I am not precomp --just trying to lean out and build muscle....
Good ? - i never even use the stepmill because I find it so hard on my legs.

Erik
05-24-2006, 06:14 PM
I don&#39;t think all that&#39;s necessary, but that&#39;s just me. Of course, that&#39;ll work, but so will significantly less.

Either way, I see your point.