Bulking Strategies!

[luvdairon]

Hey all I was hoping you ladies would chime in on your strategies for adding lean muscle mass.... I am hoping to add about 15-20 pounds and am feeling overwhelmed with all of the different approaches to take.
So what do you all do?

Add mostly carbs? (spread throughout the day?)
Keep carbs just around workout and increase fats?
Low fat/high carb?
Low carb/high fat? (keto bulk?)
Carb cycle?

What does a typyical "bulking" day look like for you?

I am so glad to have found this forum. Thanks for any advice!

[jaleena]

Not what you were asking, but my advice is to be prepared for it to take a while. As in, I started lifting almost 3yrs ago, and I've put on muscle in the range you're looking for (probably the low end), having spent more of that time bulking than not, and having no genetic challenges to adding muscle.

[smuggie]

First of all, you can forget about only adding lean mass during a bulk. You're going to gain some fat along with the muscle too.

Second, 20 lbs. of muscle is a lot for a woman. Trying to add that much muscle during one bulking cycle--if that's what you were thinking of doing--is a tall order.

As far as approaches are concerned, I'd say that most people add more carbs when bulking. IIRC, there's only one girl who posts here who did a low-carb bulk, and she had to do it that way because of GI issues.

You can carb cycle if you want to. As long as you're eating above maintenance you'll be good to go.

You can start your bulk at a small surplus, say 10%, and assess as you go along. If 10% has you gaining at a decent clip (0.5-1 lb. a week) then keep it there. If not, you can up the percentage.

[Noel Clark]

Hey all I was hoping you ladies would chime in on your strategies for adding lean muscle mass.... I am hoping to add about 15-20 pounds and am feeling overwhelmed with all of the different approaches to take.
So what do you all do?

Add mostly carbs? (spread throughout the day?)
Keep carbs just around workout and increase fats?
Low fat/high carb?
Low carb/high fat? (keto bulk?)
Carb cycle?

What does a typyical "bulking" day look like for you?

I am so glad to have found this forum. Thanks for any advice!

I finished my bulk over the fall/winter and put on about 20lbs too. I came out of it with a good amount of muscle. For me my protein probably came down a bit and my carbs went up for sure. I think that over all I was taking in a LOT more calories than I normally did. I had carbs and fat but think that for me the biggest increase was in my carb intake. Watch the scale and increase your calories or lower calories based on the gains you are seeing. Just know that with the muscle comes some fat and the leaner you are to start, I think the better off you will be--both mentally and physically.

Do you have your training ready?

[Cass]

I finished my bulk over the fall/winter and put on about 20lbs too.
:scratch:

I thought you told me you put on about 15?

[Noel Clark]

:scratch:

I thought you told me you put on about 15?

nope I think that the actual number was 17

[Erik]

:scratch:

I thought you told me you put on about 15?

:scratch:

So what if it's 15, 17, or 20. :confused:

Technically it was even significantly more than that from the weight at the first competition to the peak of the bulk.

[Erik]

Hey all I was hoping you ladies would chime in on your strategies for adding lean muscle mass.... I am hoping to add about 15-20 pounds and am feeling overwhelmed with all of the different approaches to take.
So what do you all do?

Add mostly carbs? (spread throughout the day?)
Keep carbs just around workout and increase fats?
Low fat/high carb?
Low carb/high fat? (keto bulk?)
Carb cycle?

What does a typyical "bulking" day look like for you?

I am so glad to have found this forum. Thanks for any advice!

As Jaleena said, expect it to take a while. Quite a while - at least if you're trying to make the brunt of your gain muscle.

As for the dietary specifics, they're secondary to the main goal of eating enough to fuel the growth of new muscle. So provided you meet your protein needs, which actually go down when calories and other protein-sparing nutrients go up, your EFA needs, and you eat enough, you're good to go.

There is a point where additional calories don't result in additional muscular gains, just additional bodyfat gains. You just can't fast forward the process after a certain point. As Mo said, expect to gain some fat. No one's partitioning ability is so good that all the extra calories consumed are shuttled towards muscle growth. Some will go to fat stores and the proportion of each will be determined by the individual's genetics, and secondarily food intake.

So you want to find the point in caloric intake where your'e seeing a slow, but steady climb in bodyweight, but not so much that it's climbing too fast.

And one thing to remember when you go to diet the gained fat back off, if you end up the same weight after dieting as you were going into the bulk, you basically just wasted your time. A properly done bulk should result in you being heavier after you've dieted down to the same bodyfat.

[Jen]

Last bulk I gained about a total of 30lbs from my stage weight. This was a long progressive bulk, slowly adding calories each week. I had a nice balance of fats and carbs... Protein was lowered a bit as well, alike Noel. As she said, its important to monitor yourself, are you gaining and seeing progress? Fat gain is inevitable but with a controlled bulk (progressively adding more food) you can control how much fat you gain. Decide what your cutoff will be, if you reach that goal and feel you can bulk longer, then do so. Of the 30lbs, I came out of it with a solid amount of lean muscle gain. Genetics will play a role as well, so each person is going to be slightly different.

[luvdairon]

hey thanks so much for the advice so far, Yes I am accepting the fact that fat is inevitable.

Regarding macronutrients, do you all consume carbs all throughout the day? I am already getting fat at .5/g pound and plenty of protein, so I think I need more carbs. I already get in tons right around my workout, totalling close to 200 per day (counting veggies, etc. later in the day). So should I just add starchy carbs to my meals later in the day - not around my workout? Or increase fats even more?

[Anca]

You're bulking- you don't need to count veggie carbs! Eat the "real" carbs (rice, potato, sweet potato, oats, ww bread, Ezekiel bread, tortillas).
I got carbs for 4 of the 5 daily meals (last meal was just protein+fat) on weight training days, a little less on off days. Ate at maintenance + 500 or so- you will need to determine your own level based on your weight and how fast/slow you start gaining. I posted my pre- and post-bulk stats and pics in my journal.
Have fun on your bulk! Lift heavy and enjoy your food. :wink:

[Audrey]

Unless you are eating a ton of veggies at each meal (or eating veggies of the starchier type such as peas), you do not need to count those in your carb totals.

As mentioned above, the macronutrient breakdown is not so much important as making sure that you are getting a small/moderate excess over your maintenance intake to ensure mass gains as well as making sure you are meeting your protein and EFA requirements. Once those conditions are met, it won't make a lot of difference whether you add more carbs or fat to your diet.

[Cass]

:scratch:

So what if it's 15, 17, or 20. :confused:

Technically it was even significantly more than that from the weight at the first competition to the peak of the bulk.

Is competition weight real weight? I mean who gets on stage at 120, and six weeks later is still 120? Unless that's another show date.

15, 17 or 20 does not matter at all to me. My point was simply that I thought it was 15, not 20.

[luvdairon]

thanks so much again for all of the replies. Bulking is hard for me, mentally. Anyone else struggle? Would anyone mind posting like a sample day or something? I feel like I am eating way too much, it would be nice to see something to compare it to.

[Erik]

Is competition weight real weight? I mean who gets on stage at 120, and six weeks later is still 120? Unless that's another show date.


Competition is more a representation of real weight (at least in the sense of what people are trying to gain - muscle) than anything else is, since it's easy to control the conditions.

Compare a before bodyweight at X% bodyfat and an after bodyweight at X% bodyweight. (X equaling the same number)

If it's the same, the bulk was a failure. (or perhaps the subsequent diet was)

I think we'd all agree that the goal obviously isn't to diet back down to the same weight.

[Audrey]

thanks so much again for all of the replies. Bulking is hard for me, mentally. Anyone else struggle? Would anyone mind posting like a sample day or something? I feel like I am eating way too much, it would be nice to see something to compare it to.

I think bulking is always a bit hard mentally as you do have to accept some fat gain along with it. The key though is to find that spot calorie-wise where you eat enough to support muscle gains while not letting yourself getting overly fat (basically maximizing muscle gains while minimizing fat gains)... keeping in mind that some fat gain however is inevitable.

How much do you weigh? How much are you eating right now (in terms of calories and macros)? What is your rate of weight gain (assuming you are indeed currently gaining weight)?

Posting a sample menu will be of little help as:
1. the specific foods eaten are less important than the totals at the end of the day
2. your needs/requirements (both in terms of calories and macros) will be different
3. your tastes will probably be different as well.

With that said, do you know what your maintenance intake is? If you do, take your maintenance intake and add 10-20% above that. Eat 1-1.5g/lb of bodyweight for protein, get your EFA's, have some carbs around training, and then play with the rest of your macros to either add some more carbs or fat (or a bit of both). I think you are overthinking this more than it needs to be ;)

[Noel Clark]

thanks so much again for all of the replies. Bulking is hard for me, mentally. Anyone else struggle? Would anyone mind posting like a sample day or something? I feel like I am eating way too much, it would be nice to see something to compare it to.

YES! it was hard for me too.

[Noel Clark]

Is competition weight real weight? I mean who gets on stage at 120, and six weeks later is still 120? Unless that's another show date.

15, 17 or 20 does not matter at all to me. My point was simply that I thought it was 15, not 20.

Oh that wasn't from comp weight...:lol: that was weeks after. I had already added about 6lbs...so that was ONTOP of that.

[luvdairon]

Thanks for the feedback ladies.

This is what i have been doing--- I gained about 5 pounds initially but now am not gaining anymore....

pre workout (right after waking up)- whey, fruit, bcaas, creatine
bcaas during workout
post workout- waxy maize or dextrose 35 grams, 30 g whey protein, glutamine

1 hour later- rice, quinoa, oats, or ezekiel equaling about 30-35 grams carbs + 10 egg whites with broccoli, mushrooms, and onions

3 hours later- lean beef or turkey (5-6 oz), + some sort of carb (usually beans or ezekiel bread or rice) equalling 30-35 grams carbs + salad with flaxmeal and some sort of veggies (broccoli, brussels sprouts, squash, eggplant)

3 hours later- 2 whole eggs, 4 whites, salad with flaxmeal, mixed veggies

3 hours later (right before bed)- large salad with flax and olive oil, 7 oz shrimp or sometimes salmon or chicken, .5 oz walnuts

I also take an additional 7 caps of fish oil spread throughout the day with meals.

-also, I only weigh around 105 pounds so this is kind of alot for someone my size (I'm pretty short though)

[smuggie]

You may find it's a lot of food, but you're going to have to increase your caloric intake again if you want to continue gaining.

Maybe you could try adding more fats to increase your calories without increasing the volume of food you're eating by too much.

[smuggie]

Another thing, are you tracking your calories?

[luvdairon]

I try not to get to obsessive about tracking cals and I don't weigh or measure veggies and stuff but I think they are around 2200-2400

[Erik]

I try not to get to obsessive about tracking cals and I don't weigh or measure veggies and stuff but I think they are around 2200-2400

How do you know they're in that range without counting?

One of the biggest mistakes people make in my opinion is NOT counting, or rather, knowing how much they're eating. Makes it very hard to trouble shoot. Quantity trumps quality and eating the RIGHT amount for YOUR body is what's of prime importance and the only way to do that is to count things.

[luvdairon]

thanks erik, you are right, I just get lazy and don't feel like an extra cup of broccoli or asparagus instead of zuchinni is really going to make a difference... but I definitely see where you are coming from. In general though it is around 2200 or so calories a day. For someone my size, that's a lot isn't it? What would you recommend I add, some more carbs or some more fat? I know it probably doesn't really matter, but which is my safest bet for lean gains? (or is there one?). I was thinking about just adding another 30 g carbs to my post workout shake (either more waxy maize or some rice cakes on the side or something) since those carbs will hopefully be put to good use right after my workout, but is 60 g carbs too much at once for someone my size? (plus another 35-40 coming an hour later!)

[MichelleS]

are you saying you don't measure just your veg or don't measure any of your food? :unsure:

[Erik]

thanks erik, you are right, I just get lazy and don't feel like an extra cup of broccoli or asparagus instead of zuchinni is really going to make a difference...

Oh I certainly agree. I don't ever count that stuff.



but I definitely see where you are coming from. In general though it is around 2200 or so calories a day. For someone my size, that's a lot isn't it?

I have to go back to see what you weigh ...



What would you recommend I add, some more carbs or some more fat? I know it probably doesn't really matter, but which is my safest bet for lean gains? (or is there one?).

Depends on carb tolerance. How do you feel after higher carb meals?


I was thinking about just adding another 30 g carbs to my post workout shake (either more waxy maize or some rice cakes on the side or something) since those carbs will hopefully be put to good use right after my workout, but is 60 g carbs too much at once for someone my size? (plus another 35-40 coming an hour later!)

That's a good idea. The PWO is a pretty 'safe' time for higher carb intake.

[luvdairon]

I just meant I don't measure the veggies. I measure everything else!

[luvdairon]

Oh I certainly agree. I don't ever count that stuff.



I have to go back to see what you weigh ...



Depends on carb tolerance. How do you feel after higher carb meals?



That's a good idea. The PWO is a pretty 'safe' time for higher carb intake.

Ok I think I will try that and see how it goes. I feel pretty tired after my morning carb meal (the first one after my shake) but I think that is just fatigue maybe from my workout and rushing home to shower, eat again, and get ready for work.

[MichelleS]

gotcha! :thumb:

From my last bulk its was easier to add more fats cause the carbs tended to fill me up faster and I could not get in enough food to make my goals.

[luvdairon]

That's a good idea. The PWO is a pretty 'safe' time for higher carb intake.

Erik, would my best bet be to add some sort of solid carb with nutritional value (like rice, bagel, cereal...) with my shake of waxy maize (30 g) or does it matter? Would I be better off just adding another 30 g waxy maize?

[luvdairon]

yes, I think fats would probably be easier as far as volume goes, but I admit to falling into the "fat phobia" that excess fats (especially when consuming over maintenance) will just lead to more fat.

I know, I know, it is not necessarily true, but fats are really hard for me mentally for some reason!

[MichelleS]

When you get to read journals you should read Anca journal (b1stplace) she has some great sucess with her bulk and ate all kinds of yummy stuff that was still 'cleanish'

[luvdairon]

When you get to read journals you should read Anca journal (b1stplace) she has some great sucess with her bulk and ate all kinds of yummy stuff that was still 'cleanish'

Yea I was wondering, how do I get to read the journals? thanks for the advice, I am looking forward to checking hers out!

[MichelleS]

Erik has to approve/unlock you now that you've made 10 posts.

[luvdairon]

sweet! thanks again....

[gymgurl]

yes, I think fats would probably be easier as far as volume goes, but I admit to falling into the "fat phobia" that excess fats (especially when consuming over maintenance) will just lead to more fat.

I know, I know, it is not necessarily true, but fats are really hard for me mentally for some reason!

I've been doing a lower carb bulk for the last little while and it's working pretty well (I start feeling sluggish when I eat a lot of carbs and have blood sugar levels). I used to be fat phobic too, but I feel a million times better now that my diet went from about 10% fat to 40-50%.

Plus, I have a slight (major) addiction to peanut butter, so this works perfectly for me.

[Erik]

Erik, would my best bet be to add some sort of solid carb with nutritional value (like rice, bagel, cereal...) with my shake of waxy maize (30 g) or does it matter? Would I be better off just adding another 30 g waxy maize?

It really doesn't matter.

Waxy maize has no advantage of another low fat carbohydrate as speed of digestion/absorption is secondary to actual carb amount - when it comes to glycogen synthesis at least (which is not the primary goal of the PWO period).

Your choice.

[fluteangel]

Great thread! Glad I found this one!

I get an email from Tom Venuto on his Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle newsletter. I haven't read the book, but this newsletter talks about how it is possible to gain muscle without fat and cites carb cycling as the way to do it. I'll post the article below. I'd love to get your feedback - do you think this is nonsense? Is there truth to it? Have you seen it done? Have any of you DONE his program? I think it's an interesting method to be looked at in any case...

BURN THE FAT - Fat Burning Tips Newsletter
Brought to you by Tom Venuto and Burn The Fat
http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=5hXtd&m=1lyC3WI8t94pNb&b=fR1LOKlF7iaerVySVDGTDQ
=============================================

Fat Burning Tips "Live" Weekly e-zine
In This issue:

* 1 thing you must do to gain muscle

-----------------------------------------
BURN THE FAT Q & A
WITH TOM VENUTO, Fat Loss coach
-----------------------------------------

QUESTION:

Hi Tom. I have your BURN THE FAT ebook; it's great thanks, but
now that I'm lean enough my aim is bodybuilding and muscle gain.
I read your information on body types in chapter 5 of your book
and it was very interesting. I am definitely an ectomorph body
type. I am getting good results gaining about 1 to 2 pounds a
week, but I'm pretty skinny so it's going to take a while to get
where I really want to be, but that's fine, I'm patient and
determined. My question is, can I use all the guidelines in
your BURN THE FAT ebook for gaining muscle mass?

Martin

ANSWER:

Martin, first of all, even one pound of weight gain a week
is excellent progress provided that weight is all lean body
mass and not body fat.

So, if you're not measuring your body composition, use the
information in chapter three of Burn The Fat to track your
body comp, and if you're doing that already and it's all lean
tissue, you're doing great - don't change a thing.

As for using BURN THE FAT for gaining lean weight, the answer
is yes.

It's true that BURN THE FAT, FEED THE MUSCLE is primarily a
fat burning program and as you are reading through the e-book,
you'll see that the entire manual is written with references to
getting leaner.

However, with a few simple adjustments, the program can definitely
be used for gaining muscle.

The primary adjustment would be the calories.

The #1 reason why people can't seem gain lean weight is because
they're not eating enough. You need a caloric surplus to gain
lean body mass.

With the BFFM system of nutrition and training, gaining your first
10-12 pounds of lean mass is actually quite easy. The secret is
in the proper caloric intake combined with short, intense training
sessions using meticulous and continuous progressive overload.

If you're in a calorie deficit (burning more calories than you consume),
it's very difficult to gain substantial amounts of mucle. To gain lean
body mass at the maximum possible rate, you need a calorie surplus
(consuming more calories than your total daily energy expenditure).

The trick in gaining lean weight without the fat is to select a small
calorie surplus because gorging yourself is only going to make you gain
fat along with the muscle.

Gaining fat and muscle weight is commonly known as "bulking up" and
that's the old school approach you should avoid at all costs. The
whole idea is to gain LEAN body mass.

Although BFFM is written with a fat loss slant, all the calorie
formulas are included in chapter 6, so you can figure out exactly how
many you need to lose, maintain, OR gain weight.

What I would recommend for lean gains is to take your maintenance level
(also known as "Total daily energy expenditure," or TDEE), and add a
10-15% calorie surplus on top of that as your starting point for the
muscle gaining calorie level.

The only other adjustments for gaining lean mass would be the
protein-carb-fat ratios (covered in detail in chapter 8) and of course,
the amount of cardio.

Weight gain programs require more carbs in the macronutrient mix and
less cardio. In some cases for ectomorph "hard-gainer" body types, no
cardio at all.

For the endomorph body type who tends to gain fat easily, I
recommend continuing to use a carb or calorie cycling method
even for the muscle gaining phase. The difference is in the number
of calories.

For fat loss, I typically recommend a carb cycle with a 20-30%
caloric deficit for 3 days, followed by one full day at maintenance
or even maintenance + 5-10%, with ALL the caloric increase coming
from carbs.

For lean muscle gain with out fat gain, I'd recommend a cycle with
3 days at a 15% surplus, followed by 3 days at maintenance or a
small caloric deficit of 5-10% below maintenance.

These are just guidelines which have worked well for me and my
clients - of all different body types. They are not written in
stone. In fact I have seen all types of calorie cycling variations
work for different people. Any non-linear calorie approach is
superior, in my opinion.

All the other principles in BFFM, such as eating the "foods that burn"
fat and avoiding the "foods that turn to fat" apply as equally to
weight gain programs as they do to fat loss programs.

In fact, many BFFM "graduates" quickly reached their fat loss goal
using these techniques, and then with a few simple adjustments,
shifted into a "muscle-gaining phase." Same program, 1 change
in calorie levels.

Using the BFFM techniques for muscle mass gains, most people can expect
to gain 1/2 pound to 1 pound per week of lean body mass with no increase
in body fat, (1/2 to 3/4 of that for women).

These types of gains can be achieved completely natural - and in
fact, natural is the only way I'd ever recommend you do muscle
gaining programs.

Train hard and expect success,
Tom Venuto, fat loss coach

[fluteangel]

Sounds like it makes sense, at least on paper. Basically boiling down to a controlled bulk instead of an all-out binge-fest to gain muscle. The interesting part is the caloric cycling. Would that really have that much effect on not gaining fat and gaining muscle to cycle carbs? I haven't purchased his book, but I have a friend who might let me read it if we get the chance.

Anyone agree or disagree with this? :turnoff: Anca, I know you did a controlled bulk, but you didn't carb cycle did you? I know several of you ladies (and men!) have experience with bulking cycles, did any of you employ this method? Erik and Noel, feel free to chime in with your knowledge. :shades:

[Noel Clark]

Sounds like it makes sense, at least on paper. Basically boiling down to a controlled bulk instead of an all-out binge-fest to gain muscle. The interesting part is the caloric cycling. Would that really have that much effect on not gaining fat and gaining muscle to cycle carbs? I haven't purchased his book, but I have a friend who might let me read it if we get the chance.

Anyone agree or disagree with this? :turnoff: Anca, I know you did a controlled bulk, but you didn't carb cycle did you? I know several of you ladies (and men!) have experience with bulking cycles, did any of you employ this method? Erik and Noel, feel free to chime in with your knowledge. :shades:

Carb cycling isn't going to be your "answer" for a fat free bulk. I know that you want to do the best bulk you can, with as little extra fat as you can, but honestly carb cycling is just one way to eat. I ate higher carbs on training days but not necessarily low carbs on off days during my bulk. The point is to just get in more food--not crazy eat your face off food and just watch the scale and the measurments. If you start to gain too quickly...then you know you are eating too much and can scale it back a bit. If you get to a point that you are uncomfortable-then take a couple weeks to diet some of the fat off and then resume your bulk.

[smuggie]

For lean muscle gain with out fat gain, I'd recommend a cycle with
3 days at a 15% surplus, followed by 3 days at maintenance or a
small caloric deficit of 5-10% below maintenance.

Using the BFFM techniques for muscle mass gains, most people can expect
to gain 1/2 pound to 1 pound per week of lean body mass with no increase
in body fat, (1/2 to 3/4 of that for women).

I did some math here and this is BS. If someone followed his dietary recommendation to eat at maintenance for three days and eat at a a deficit for three days, he or she would not be averaging out to a daily surplus. So there would be no muscle gain.

If he or she ate at a surplus for three days, followed by three days at maintenance he or she would average out to a surplus, but only a 7% surplus.

Now, according to the figures he cites, the rate of muscle gain for a man would be 26-52 lbs. a year. For a woman, it would 26-39 lbs. a year.

Imagine that. I could gain that much muscle in a year eating at a 7% surplus.

Uh-huh. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/confused%20and%20thinking%20smilies/goldfishrolleyes.gif

[Erik]

Carb cycling isn't going to be your "answer" for a fat free bulk. I know that you want to do the best bulk you can, with as little extra fat as you can, but honestly carb cycling is just one way to eat. I ate higher carbs on training days but not necessarily low carbs on off days during my bulk. The point is to just get in more food--not crazy eat your face off food and just watch the scale and the measurments. If you start to gain too quickly...then you know you are eating too much and can scale it back a bit. If you get to a point that you are uncomfortable-then take a couple weeks to diet some of the fat off and then resume your bulk.

:thumb:

[fluteangel]

I did some math here and this is BS. If someone followed his dietary recommendation to eat at maintenance for three days and eat at a a deficit for three days, he or she would not be averaging out to a daily surplus. So there would be no muscle gain.

If he or she ate at a surplus for three days, followed by three days at maintenance he or she would average out to a surplus, but only a 7% surplus.

Now, according to the figures he cites, the rate of muscle gain for a man would be 26-52 lbs. a year. For a woman, it would 26-39 lbs. a year.

Imagine that. I could gain that much muscle in a year eating at a 7% surplus.

Uh-huh. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/confused%20and%20thinking%20smilies/goldfishrolleyes.gif

Good observation. So his theory is that it's all carb intake on a day to day (or 3-day to day) basis and not a weekly average. Why does it necessarily have to be an average of a week? Why wouldn't it make sense in a three day period? My guess is that it's too short of a time for your body to adjust to the caloric amounts so it really does end up all averages?

[smuggie]

Good observation. So his theory is that it's all carb intake on a day to day (or 3-day to day) basis and not a weekly average. Why does it necessarily have to be an average of a week? Why wouldn't it make sense in a three day period? My guess is that it's too short of a time for your body to adjust to the caloric amounts so it really does end up all averages?

I did the calculations by totaling what your caloric intake for a month would be, and then dividing by 30. Trust me, at a 7% surplus you're not putting on a lot of weight.

Don't even get me started on how ridiculous the idea you can put on as much muscle in a year as he claims you can is. :lol:

[fluteangel]

And one thing to remember when you go to diet the gained fat back off, if you end up the same weight after dieting as you were going into the bulk, you basically just wasted your time. A properly done bulk should result in you being heavier after you've dieted down to the same bodyfat.

How do you figure out what your bodyfat is though? I"m not sure what my bodyfat was when I started. One scale said 22%, my brother's said 15% and a hand held one said 18%. So how do I know? Do I go based on measurements after I've dieted back down to the same weight or do I not go back to the same weight since I ultimately want to be heavier...?

[Noel Clark]

How do you figure out what your bodyfat is though? I"m not sure what my bodyfat was when I started. One scale said 22%, my brother's said 15% and a hand held one said 18%. So how do I know? Do I go based on measurements after I've dieted back down to the same weight or do I not go back to the same weight since I ultimately want to be heavier...?

I never had my BF done EVER. What he means is basically if you do a bulk and then diet back down...you should just end up heavier but just as lean...be that waist measurments, pics or whatever. The goal is NOT to weigh the same.

[fluteangel]

When doing a controlled bulk, one generally starts out at a modest increase, about 10% above maintenance, correct? How long does one stay there before increasing; what are the determining factors? Also, do you go up another 10% or x amount of calories, etc? How is that determined?

On a side note, this weekend will mark 2 weeks of my first off-season muscle building! (I like that better than "bulk" :p) and I have to say, I'm already tired of being a calorie counter. I hate having to track every single little thing. I don't mind writing down what I eat so I stay "on track" but geez, I don't want this to turn into a disorder where I obsess about every calorie, carb, etc. especially since this is the off-season where I should have more freedom! What methods have you all employed when you've bulked? I hate feeling guilty for having a free meal, too! I define free as not counting calories. And only having one a week at that! I really think this is starting to get out of hand for me, it's not a normal way of life. Is there a happy medium?

[Inatic]

Love having Erik do all the thinking/planning for me. (i know, not an option for you)

make a template/menu?

[Erik]

When doing a controlled bulk, one generally starts out at a modest increase, about 10% above maintenance, correct? How long does one stay there before increasing; what are the determining factors?

Results are the determining factor. THE determining factor.


I hate feeling guilty for having a free meal, too!

That's your own issue to work through and that's completely your choice. You are choosing to feel guilty. Simple as that.



I define free as not counting calories. And only having one a week at that! I really think this is starting to get out of hand for me, it's not a normal way of life. Is there a happy medium?

And you define a normal way of life how? How 99% of North Americans eat? No thank you. Eat like them = look like them.

[fluteangel]

No no, normal being counting every single thing every day for the rest of my life. Seems like added stress. I have gone periods of time without tracking and periods of time with tracking. Seems that there should be a happy medium to living without tracking everything all the time for the rest of life.

[Erik]

No no, normal being counting every single thing every day for the rest of my life. Seems like added stress.

If you view it that way, sure.

Change your view. Choose to enjoy the process. Enjoy being different.

If you think it's a pain in the butt, stressful, blah, blah, you're going to feel that way.

There's a Proverb that says - "As he thinks in his heart, so is he."

And another one that says, "Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts."



I have gone periods of time without tracking and periods of time with tracking. Seems that there should be a happy medium to living without tracking everything all the time for the rest of life.

We discussed this here:

Measuring and Weighing Food Forever (http://leanbodiesfitness.com/showthread.php?t=12870)

[fluteangel]

Those are some of my favorite scriptures, I never thought to apply them to this situation! Beautiful. Thanks Erik. :)

I do enjoy being different and the changes I see it making in my body. I'm hoping one day I'll be able to calculate a lot of it without having to look it up. :hamster: Hello, my name is it the human calculator...haha!

[Jen]

If you view it that way, sure.

Change your view. Choose to enjoy the process. Enjoy being different.

If you think it's a pain in the butt, stressful, blah, blah, you're going to feel that way.

There's a Proverb that says - "As he thinks in his heart, so is he."

And another one that says, "Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts."




EXCELLENT!!!!!

[smuggie]

I've been tracking my food intake for over five years. I don't feel as if I'm doing anything abnormal at all, and I'm far from being obsessed with food. I have a healthy attitude towards eating. :shrug: You can have an obsessive attitude about food even if you never track a darn bite of what you eat.

Besides, who in the hell wants to be "normal?"

[Jen]

I've been tracking my food intake for over five years. I don't feel as if I'm doing anything abnormal at all, and I'm far from being obsessed with food. I have a healthy attitude towards eating. :shrug: You can have an obsessive attitude about food even if you never track a darn bite of what you eat.

Besides, who in the hell wants to be "normal?"
:yeahthat:

I've tracked my food intake since I was 15. obsessive? hardly. bad relationship with food? zero. stressful? not at all.

[Anca]

I've been tracking my food intake for over five years. I don't feel as if I'm doing anything abnormal at all, and I'm far from being obsessed with food. I have a healthy attitude towards eating. :shrug: You can have an obsessive attitude about food even if you never track a darn bite of what you eat.

Besides, who in the hell wants to be "normal?"

So true! :nod:

[TriciaE]

And you define a normal way of life how? How 99% of North Americans eat? No thank you. Eat like them = look like them.

EXACTLY! I think I'm going to print up a t-shirt with this on it.

[Audrey]

I've been tracking my food intake for over five years. I don't feel as if I'm doing anything abnormal at all, and I'm far from being obsessed with food. I have a healthy attitude towards eating. :shrug: You can have an obsessive attitude about food even if you never track a darn bite of what you eat.

Besides, who in the hell wants to be "normal?"

Good post :thumb:

I have been tracking my food for the past 5 years and I do not feel obsessive about food at all. Tracking your calorie intake does not make you obsessive itself... it is how you view food that will either make you obsessive or not.

As far as the number of free meals you allow yourself when bulking, it depends on a few things including how well you can control your portions when you have those free meals, what your calorie surplus is, your progress... 2-3 free meals per week could/would be fine, providing you know how to control your portions.

[Noel Clark]

:yeahthat:

I've tracked my food intake since I was 15. obsessive? hardly. bad relationship with food? zero. stressful? not at all.

I :lub:

[fluteangel]

How have you all figured out your "cut off" point, to where you feel uncomfotable? Don't you feel uncomfortable the entire bulk?

And once you get to your cut off point, how do you go about dieting the fat back off? Do you start the way you began, with a 10% defecit and lower it every two weeks or so? Up the cardio? Both I'm guessing. :)

[Erik]

How have you all figured out your "cut off" point, to where you feel uncomfotable? Don't you feel uncomfortable the entire bulk?


YOU figure out YOUR cut off point.

It will differ from person to person.

Are you following my blog series on bulking?



And once you get to your cut off point, how do you go about dieting the fat back off?

You start dieting?

[fluteangel]

Yup, reading along.:baby:

[Petro]

How have you all figured out your "cut off" point, to where you feel uncomfotable? Don't you feel uncomfortable the entire bulk?

And once you get to your cut off point, how do you go about dieting the fat back off? Do you start the way you began, with a 10% defecit and lower it every two weeks or so? Up the cardio? Both I'm guessing. :)

I'm currently doing my very first bulk and eating a very large amount of calories for my size, and I can't say I have ever felt uncomfortable after a meal (and I have a very sensitive stomach)

I feel like you have a view of 'bulking' as someone sitting there throwing down 5 snickers with a chocolate milkshake shooter

[fluteangel]

Haha, I don't have that view, though it may seem like it - I've never done a bulk before so it's taking me awhile to gradually wrap my head around eating more calories being good. I'm getting it though! :popcorn:

I am down 2 lbs. today from last week, but last week I was up between 1 1/2-2 lbs. from the week before, so I'm sure the increase/decrease was water weight (TOM). I am a little preturbed though since I was hoping to be at least up more from what I was two weeks ago, not back to the exact same thing. SO I'm guessing that means I need to up the calories. My question is, how do you figure out how much to up your calories - by 10%, by 100 calories? I'm also running more right now so I know the calories are going out that way and once I stop running (after next week) will I be in too big of a surplus then? I was at 1900 calories, so I decided to shoot for 2000; good?

[Jen]

Haha, I don't have that view, though it may seem like it - I've never done a bulk before so it's taking me awhile to gradually wrap my head around eating more calories being good. I'm getting it though! :popcorn:

I am down 2 lbs. today from last week, but last week I was up between 1 1/2-2 lbs. from the week before, so I'm sure the increase/decrease was water weight (TOM). I am a little preturbed though since I was hoping to be at least up more from what I was two weeks ago, not back to the exact same thing. SO I'm guessing that means I need to up the calories. My question is, how do you figure out how much to up your calories - by 10%, by 100 calories? I'm also running more right now so I know the calories are going out that way and once I stop running (after next week) will I be in too big of a surplus then? I was at 1900 calories, so I decided to shoot for 2000; good?

go to 3000. no typo.

[Petro]

Haha, I don't have that view, though it may seem like it - I've never done a bulk before so it's taking me awhile to gradually wrap my head around eating more calories being good. I'm getting it though! :popcorn:

I am down 2 lbs. today from last week, but last week I was up between 1 1/2-2 lbs. from the week before, so I'm sure the increase/decrease was water weight (TOM). I am a little preturbed though since I was hoping to be at least up more from what I was two weeks ago, not back to the exact same thing. SO I'm guessing that means I need to up the calories. My question is, how do you figure out how much to up your calories - by 10%, by 100 calories? I'm also running more right now so I know the calories are going out that way and once I stop running (after next week) will I be in too big of a surplus then? I was at 1900 calories, so I decided to shoot for 2000; good?

Angela....I wise man once told me....."it is impossible to shoot for two goals at once and be successful at either of them' :lol:

If I were you, I would not think about bulking until you get through your PT test, that is something that is important for your career and should be first and foremost on your mind at this time.....After that is over, then you can focus your attention on bulking and upping your calories

[Erik]

Angela....I wise man once told me....."it is impossible to shoot for two goals at once and be successful at either of them' :lol:

If I were you, I would not think about bulking until you get through your PT test, that is something that is important for your career and should be first and foremost on your mind at this time.....After that is over, then you can focus your attention on bulking and upping your calories

Wow - that sounds like an incredibly wise man. Nice advice.

[fluteangel]

Angela....I wise man once told me....."it is impossible to shoot for two goals at once and be successful at either of them' :lol:

If I were you, I would not think about bulking until you get through your PT test, that is something that is important for your career and should be first and foremost on your mind at this time.....After that is over, then you can focus your attention on bulking and upping your calories


go to 3000. no typo.

Haha, I weighed myself this morning just to see what the water was and holy resevoir batman, I weighed 128.2! Up 3 pounds. :) Must have been the extra peanut butter last night. ;)

Jen, 3000? Are you serious?!?! Wow, why that number? Don't you want to gradually up it?

Petro, thanks so much, I agree with you completely. I wasn't planning on really concentrating on keeping bulking until after next Sunday - I'm doing more pushups, situps and running right now and not doing as much weights this week (probably only twice) but I was wondering what kinds of numbers to shoot for this week and I thought 2000 would be safe. Course, if it is smarter for me to drop my numbers, I could do that, just till the test is over, but I doubt that would make any difference or would matter.

Oh, and I love the quote!:happy05:

[Petro]

Wow - that sounds like an incredibly wise man. Nice advice.

as wise as he is humble :)

[Erik]

as wise as he is humble :)

Yes - sounds like he's extremely humble too.

[Jen]

Haha, I weighed myself this morning just to see what the water was and holy resevoir batman, I weighed 128.2! Up 3 pounds. :) Must have been the extra peanut butter last night. ;)

Jen, 3000? Are you serious?!?! Wow, why that number? Don't you want to gradually up it?


YOU WILL NOT GAIN 3LBS OF BODYFAT OVERNIGHT FROM TOO MUCH PEANUT BUTTER ONE NIGHT. okie dookie? :)
the 3000, no I was kidding. haha


Angela....I wise man once told me....."it is impossible to shoot for two goals at once and be successful at either of them' :lol:

If I were you, I would not think about bulking until you get through your PT test, that is something that is important for your career and should be first and foremost on your mind at this time.....After that is over, then you can focus your attention on bulking and upping your calories
EXCELLENT advice! :thumb:

[fluteangel]

YOU WILL NOT GAIN 3LBS OF BODYFAT OVERNIGHT FROM TOO MUCH PEANUT BUTTER ONE NIGHT. okie dookie? :)
the 3000, no I was kidding. haha


EXCELLENT advice! :thumb:

Hahaha, I know it's not bodyfat, dont' worry! I know it's actually all water, so I'm not worried in the least. In the past I would have freaked out, so I've actually made uite a bit of progress there. :bunny:

I am going to focus only on my PT test this week and doing the best I can, thinking I'll do two weight workouts this week and pushups, situps and running every day, or at least 5 days this week. Does that sound smart? I'm wondering what calorie intake I should shoot for? 1900, 2000, keep the same or go up? For my workouts, I can modify what I have been doing (5x5) doing rows and the shoulder machine, but should I take out the bench, squats, deadlifts or leg press? Thinking I should keep the squats and deadlifts, or at least the deadlifts, and then do my pushups and situps. Not really sure what to do for a modified full body workout there. I go tomorrow morning. Any ideas?

[Erik]

My head is spinning.

[fluteangel]

imagine how I feel? :yeahthat:

Simplified:
going to do two full body workouts this week, wondering what exercises to do. Been doing 5x5, going to be doing lots of pushups and situps, so to modify my plan, should I leave out the bench, squat, dead and leg press or keep all those and leave out the auxillary stuff?
Bulking objective is put aside for this week, with that in mind, I've been tracking my calories and wondered what I should shoot for calorie-wise during this week. Does it matter for this week, should I just keep it the same?

That wasn't so bad, was it? :lol:

[smuggie]

My head is spinning.

[fluteangel]

is this like poltergeist up in here?

Haha, I'm really not trying to be confusing.:lol3:

SImplified version take 2:

1) Since I"m not focusing on bulking right now, do I need to worry about hitting numbers for caloric intake this week?
2) Which exercises would make for an efficient full body workout that I will do twice this week? Would it be ok to just modify the 5x5 workout I'm doing and take out some exercises? WOndering if I should take out the leg exercises since I'll be running so much.

Hope that makes it simpler, really just looking for best advice. And thanks!


Update:
Thinking about doing a modified version of Erik's full body routine:

Day 1
Front Squats
Pushups (instead of Flat Bench Press)
Shoulder Machine Press
BB Rows
Situps (not 5x5)

All done for 5x5 w/ 120s rest


Quote:
Day 2
Deadlifts
Pushups (instead of Flat Dumbbell Press)
BB Rows
Situps or different ab exercise. Circuit?

This keeps things close to my 5x5, but wondering if I should take out the squats or leg work altogether since I'll be running? ALso wondering if I should do any other ab exercises so I'm not doing so many situps every day this week. Planning on running every day.

[Jen]

My head is spinning.

mine too

[smuggie]

Angela, we're talking about a week here. Stop overthinking this.

[fluteangel]

Yeah, I did. I wish I could get it through my thick skull that one week is not going to make a huge difference! :bitch:

For some reason I tend to think that every day counts and so does every week, so I want each to be as effective as possible, but I know I can't do two goals at once here, so I'm not going to stress about it at all. I'm focusing on the pushups and situps and running and as for food, just going to keep at it with 1900 or so cals, if it happens to go to 2000, that's fine, no stress. I've only gained .8 lbs in 3 weeks so when I return to bulking, the calories need to be upped any way.:cheat:

[smuggie]

Yeah, I did. I wish I could get it through my thick skull that one week is not going to make a huge difference! :bitch:

For some reason I tend to think that every day counts and so does every week, so I want each to be as effective as possible, but I know I can't do two goals at once here, so I'm not going to stress about it at all. I'm focusing on the pushups and situps and running and as for food, just going to keep at it with 1900 or so cals, if it happens to go to 2000, that's fine, no stress. I've only gained .8 lbs in 3 weeks so when I return to bulking, the calories need to be upped any way.:cheat:

That's much better. :D

[fluteangel]

So TOM is really screwing up my figuring out my progress. I gain and lose 2-4 lbs. of water weight every couple of weeks, Sunday the scale said 130 and a week before that I was almost 126, which was only up almost 1 lb. from 2 weeks before ( I think). I don't know if I should up my calories or not, any way to figure that out with water weight being an issue? I know I didn't gain 5 lbs. in a week, especially with all the running I did...

[Jen]

So TOM is really screwing up my figuring out my progress. I gain and lose 2-4 lbs. of water weight every couple of weeks, Sunday the scale said 130 and a week before that I was almost 126, which was only up almost 1 lb. from 2 weeks before ( I think). I don't know if I should up my calories or not, any way to figure that out with water weight being an issue? I know I didn't gain 5 lbs. in a week, especially with all the running I did...

step off the scale. donate it to your dumpster.

[Suzanne]

I am building right now not fond of the work "bulking" makes you sounds fat

I mostly use pics and measurements.I do use 9 site caliper not for the bf amt but just to see if mm's go up or down in each area, last tool scale

When i submit pics to trainer I put 3 sets side by side most recent 2 weeks and far left a starting point be it where we changed my diet or whatever. And do all the poses http://fitsuzanne.com/SuzCompare.htm

I also note things like on my most current set 10/18/08 that i look uller and rounder in the middle pics 10/10/08 which happened to be taken after eating and the others were first hing am before eating.

I am eating somewhere around 2000-2200 cals with 2 day a week a few 100 higher and saturday cheat meal night which this week was mexican combo meal and love it pb cup perfection extra pb cups from coldstone and mother's circus animal cookies

[Blondell]

I am building right now not fond of the work "bulking" makes you sounds fat

I mostly use pics and measurements.I do use 9 site caliper not for the bf amt but just to see if mm's go up or down in each area, last tool scale

When i submit pics to trainer I put 3 sets side by side most recent 2 weeks and far left a starting point be it where we changed my diet or whatever. And do all the poses http://fitsuzanne.com/SuzCompare.htm

I also note things like on my most current set 10/18/08 that i look uller and rounder in the middle pics 10/10/08 which happened to be taken after eating and the others were first hing am before eating.

I am eating somewhere around 2000-2200 cals with 2 day a week a few 100 higher and saturday cheat meal night which this week was mexican combo meal and love it pb cup perfection extra pb cups from coldstone and mother's circus animal cookies

:shakeithappy::shakeithappy::shakeithappy:

:clap:

[jills]

I am building right now not fond of the work "bulking" makes you sounds fat

I mostly use pics and measurements.I do use 9 site caliper not for the bf amt but just to see if mm's go up or down in each area, last tool scale

When i submit pics to trainer I put 3 sets side by side most recent 2 weeks and far left a starting point be it where we changed my diet or whatever. And do all the poses http://fitsuzanne.com/SuzCompare.htm

I also note things like on my most current set 10/18/08 that i look uller and rounder in the middle pics 10/10/08 which happened to be taken after eating and the others were first hing am before eating.

I am eating somewhere around 2000-2200 cals with 2 day a week a few 100 higher and saturday cheat meal night which this week was mexican combo meal and love it pb cup perfection extra pb cups from coldstone and mother's circus animal cookies


:clap:

that was fun to look at! Nice changes!

[jessatthegym]

When I did my first serious (20lbs.) I just had to put on my big girl pants (literally. hello black sweatpants, goodbye jeans!) for a few months and put the crazy aside. Ultimately, it was worth it.

My second, not so intentional bulk (hello crazy contest rebound and warped metabolism!), I put back on the big girl pants and prayed my body would regulate itself if I was consistent. I figured, if I'm stuck being fluffy and feeling fat, I might as well make the most of it and lift as heavy as possible.

Now that my body's back to normal and I'm a comfortable leanness... I see how worth it sucking it up really was.

[Suzanne]

When I did my first serious (20lbs.) I just had to put on my big girl pants (literally. hello black sweatpants, goodbye jeans!) for a few months and put the crazy aside. Ultimately, it was worth it.

My second, not so intentional bulk (hello crazy contest rebound and warped metabolism!), I put back on the big girl pants and prayed my body would regulate itself if I was consistent. I figured, if I'm stuck being fluffy and feeling fat, I might as well make the most of it and lift as heavy as possible.

Now that my body's back to normal and I'm a comfortable leanness... I see how worth it sucking it up really was.

:clap:

i had that type of rebound after my last show Nov 2007 left over metab probs form the trainer before (2004-2006) and it was damn hard to just keep going and it took 6 months for my body to start responding. It was hard but worth sucking it up.

[smuggie]

step off the scale. donate it to your dumpster.

:lol3:

[Erik]

Here's a good POV from a pro:

You should have the same approach with off-season as with pre-contest. It's a work period. A lot of people tend to just relax and train casually, and then when they've had enough they wanna diet for a show. Take your off-season seriously. It's a more important season than pre-contest, its here you build your physique. Eat quality food your body can use for building material, look at the clock, always eat within 3 hours. Dont fill your body with crap-food. Train hard. It's a working period. Pre-contest is just peeling the layer off to show what you've accomplished in the off-season.

Somebody once told me: " you have to learn to like to be soft" - very true, and it doesnt have to be a bad soft look - muscles but feminine We cant just strive for competition look all the time. Every season has its gifts

[BigAmes]

Here's a good POV from a pro:

You should have the same approach with off-season as with pre-contest. It's a work period. A lot of people tend to just relax and train casually, and then when they've had enough they wanna diet for a show. Take your off-season seriously. It's a more important season than pre-contest, its here you build your physique. Eat quality food your body can use for building material, look at the clock, always eat within 3 hours. Dont fill your body with crap-food. Train hard. It's a working period. Pre-contest is just peeling the layer off to show what you've accomplished in the off-season.

Somebody once told me: " you have to learn to like to be soft" - very true, and it doesnt have to be a bad soft look - muscles but feminine We cant just strive for competition look all the time. Every season has its gifts

Great post!

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

Here's a good POV from a pro:

You should have the same approach with off-season as with pre-contest. It's a work period. A lot of people tend to just relax and train casually, and then when they've had enough they wanna diet for a show. Take your off-season seriously. It's a more important season than pre-contest, its here you build your physique. Eat quality food your body can use for building material, look at the clock, always eat within 3 hours. Dont fill your body with crap-food. Train hard. It's a working period. Pre-contest is just peeling the layer off to show what you've accomplished in the off-season.

Somebody once told me: " you have to learn to like to be soft" - very true, and it doesnt have to be a bad soft look - muscles but feminine We cant just strive for competition look all the time. Every season has its gifts

Definitely a good POV. That is exactly how I see it. Although learning to like being soft is very very hard.........

I was having this same discussion with one of the guys at my gym, I was telling him how hard it is to feel like Im softer, but if I dont let myself eat and gain weight, Im going to come in looking no different than I did this year. I need to throw out my scale too, lol.

[fluteangel]

You're right, it is VERY difficult, but I'm slowly adapting to it. The hardest part is having to go buy new clothes since nothing fits and we're tight on money! :tantrum:

So I took my measurements this morning and I know that's what you should go by more than the scale (though still aiming for 1/2 - 1 lb. a week, right/) and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on if what I'm doing is right on track, I should scale back on the eats, or add? Let me add I haven't done any cardio this week, will today and started TOM this past Sunday.

Four weeks ago: 127.2
Three weeks ago 125.2 lbs
Last week: 130 (TOM)
Today: 128.4

Measurements at the beginning - 5 weeks ago (I think):
Shoulders: 38
Chest: 35
Waist: 27
Hips: 37
Thighs: 22
Calves: 14
Arms: 11

Today:
Chest: 36
Waist: 28
Hips: 38
Thighs 23
Arms: 11.5

So I've gained 1 inch everywhere except my shoulders/calves - no growth and arms; half inch.

Is this right on track? I'm eating at maintenance plus 10% (realistically a little more since I tend to go over a bit everyday...:cena:).

[Anca]

You're right, it is VERY difficult, but I'm slowly adapting to it. The hardest part is having to go buy new clothes since nothing fits and we're tight on money! :tantrum:

So I took my measurements this morning and I know that's what you should go by more than the scale (though still aiming for 1/2 - 1 lb. a week, right/) and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on if what I'm doing is right on track, I should scale back on the eats, or add? Let me add I haven't done any cardio this week, will today and started TOM this past Sunday.

Four weeks ago: 127.2
Three weeks ago 125.2 lbs
Last week: 130 (TOM)
Today: 128.4

Measurements at the beginning - 5 weeks ago (I think):
Shoulders: 38
Chest: 35
Waist: 27
Hips: 37
Thighs: 22
Calves: 14
Arms: 11

Today:
Chest: 36
Waist: 28
Hips: 38
Thighs 23
Arms: 11.5

So I've gained 1 inch everywhere except my shoulders/calves - no growth and arms; half inch.

Is this right on track? I'm eating at maintenance plus 10% (realistically a little more since I tend to go over a bit everyday...:cena:).

I think your TOM last week is kinda messing with your stats. You only have 1.2 lb net gain in weight compared to 4 weeks ago but 1 inch gain in waist, hips and thighs. Maybe that's due to water retention?
I gained 2 lbs/mo during my 24 week bulk and measurements always went up in 1/4 or 1/2 inch increments.

[fluteangel]

I think your TOM last week is kinda messing with your stats. You only have 1.2 lb net gain in weight compared to 4 weeks ago but 1 inch gain in waist, hips and thighs. Maybe that's due to water retention?
I gained 2 lbs/mo during my 24 week bulk and measurements always went up in 1/4 or 1/2 inch increments.

I have no doubt you're right, it's just frustrating to figure out if I'm on track gaining or gaining too fast when TOM messes up stuff so much!

[Anca]

I have no doubt you're right, it's just frustrating to figure out if I'm on track gaining or gaining too fast when TOM messes up stuff so much!

That's why I liked having Erik to calm me down! :lol:
I would keep doing what you're doing for these next 2 weeks and re-assess from there. You should be at the "leanest" point in the month by then (as far as TOM issues are concerned).

[fluteangel]

My TOM ended a week ago and I should have lost the water weight by now...I haven't, I'm up two more pounds! I was 130 day of PT test (3 weeks ago? maybe 2) and today I'm holding at 132.

I have more stress, less sleep and not as much control over my eats this weekend, though I'm doing my best. Besides that, I am taking probiotics and digestive enzymes. Could that be why I've gained more, I actually am absorbing more nutrients?

I thought I would lose the water weight by now, because surely I didn't blow up that fast...

I'm not sure how long I should bulk before I diet some of the fat off, not sure when would be a good time. WHen I feel uncomfortable is relative - I've been umcomfortable ever since my clothes stopped fitting and I can't find any that DO fit! :lol: That aside, is it typical to bulk for a few months, diet for what, a month? then go back to bulking or is it more typical to do it in terms of weeks? My guess is the former, just looking for other opinions from those wiser than I.:ninja:

[smuggie]

My TOM ended a week ago and I should have lost the water weight by now...I haven't, I'm up two more pounds! I was 130 day of PT test (3 weeks ago? maybe 2) and today I'm holding at 132.

I have more stress, less sleep and not as much control over my eats this weekend, though I'm doing my best. Besides that, I am taking probiotics and digestive enzymes. Could that be why I've gained more, I actually am absorbing more nutrients?

I thought I would lose the water weight by now, because surely I didn't blow up that fast...

I'm not sure how long I should bulk before I diet some of the fat off, not sure when would be a good time. WHen I feel uncomfortable is relative - I've been umcomfortable ever since my clothes stopped fitting and I can't find any that DO fit! :lol: That aside, is it typical to bulk for a few months, diet for what, a month? then go back to bulking or is it more typical to do it in terms of weeks? My guess is the former, just looking for other opinions from those wiser than I.:ninja:

You're up 2 lbs. from 2-3 weeks ago? I'd say that's about right for someone who's bulking.

[Petro]

I'm not sure how long I should bulk before I diet some of the fat off, not sure when would be a good time. WHen I feel uncomfortable is relative - I've been umcomfortable ever since my clothes stopped fitting and I can't find any that DO fit! :lol: That aside, is it typical to bulk for a few months, diet for what, a month? then go back to bulking or is it more typical to do it in terms of weeks? My guess is the former, just looking for other opinions from those wiser than I.:ninja:

so has gaining two pounds caused your clothes not to fit? Those must have been pretty tight clothes to begin with. I've gained 12 lbs since I first started working with Erik and other than the fact that alot of my shirts are too tight now around the shoulders, I'm still wearing all the same clothes...so I have a hard time believing 2lbs has caused you to grow out of your clothes>:bunny:

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

My TOM ended a week ago and I should have lost the water weight by now...I haven't, I'm up two more pounds! I was 130 day of PT test (3 weeks ago? maybe 2) and today I'm holding at 132.

I have more stress, less sleep and not as much control over my eats this weekend, though I'm doing my best. Besides that, I am taking probiotics and digestive enzymes. Could that be why I've gained more, I actually am absorbing more nutrients?

I thought I would lose the water weight by now, because surely I didn't blow up that fast...

I'm not sure how long I should bulk before I diet some of the fat off, not sure when would be a good time. WHen I feel uncomfortable is relative - I've been umcomfortable ever since my clothes stopped fitting and I can't find any that DO fit! :lol: That aside, is it typical to bulk for a few months, diet for what, a month? then go back to bulking or is it more typical to do it in terms of weeks? My guess is the former, just looking for other opinions from those wiser than I.:ninja:

I think most people bulk for at least 3-4 months, depending on how much fat they can tolerate. However, the longer you can tolerate bulking the better, because that just means more muscle. It cant be good to diet before even contest prep starts, than bulk again, kinda like you are 'yo yo' dieting basically (IMO). Plus you'd want to give your body a rest from all the dieting and functioning on minimal energy.

I was planning on bulking until after the first of the year for sure, than depending on how much fat I feel I need to peel off before my first show, and how long I think it will take me to do that, than I will determine when I need to start buckling down, and dieting. I dont imagine it will be til somewhere in March at the earliest, but ya never know :).

I have gained at least 3 lbs since I started in mid september (about 7weeks), however that also includes a little rebound. I didnt try to diet off my rebound before I started bulking.

[Erik]

so I have a hard time believing 2lbs has caused you to grow out of your clothes>:bunny:

Correct. Because it hasn't.

[fluteangel]

Correct. Because it hasn't.


Agreed, but no, I haven't gained 2 lbs in that amout of time, it's been more like 4.

See above post:

Four weeks ago: 127.2
Three weeks ago 125.2 lbs
2 weeks ago: 130 (TOM)
Last week: 128.4
Yesterday: 132

[Petro]

Agreed, but no, I haven't gained 2 lbs in that amout of time, it's been more like 4.

See above post:

Four weeks ago: 127.2
Three weeks ago 125.2 lbs
2 weeks ago: 130 (TOM)
Last week: 128.4
Yesterday: 132

The point is that whether it be 2 lbs or 4 lbs...shouldn't make your clothes not fit unless

a) your clothes were too tight to begin with
b) it is in your head and you are freaking yourself out over gaining 4 lbs when the whole purpose of bulking is to gain weight

[Erik]

The point is that whether it be 2 lbs or 4 lbs...shouldn't make your clothes not fit unless

a) your clothes were too tight to begin with
b) it is in your head and you are freaking yourself out over gaining 4 lbs when the whole purpose of bulking is to gain weight

And I'll agree with this one too. :thumb:

[Anca]

Agreed, but no, I haven't gained 2 lbs in that amout of time, it's been more like 4.

See above post:

Four weeks ago: 127.2
Three weeks ago 125.2 lbs
2 weeks ago: 130 (TOM)
Last week: 128.4
Yesterday: 132

I don't know how tall you are but for me (I'm 5'4" and pretty light) gaining 4-5 lbs would definitely affect how my tightest clothes fit. For instance, I just bought 2 pairs of jeans that are tight (not uncomfortably of course- just nicely form-fitting; as in, hot! :flirty: :lol: ). I know I'll be out of them 5 lbs from now. (I bought them for contest times since I was out of clothing options and everything was too big).
Ok I'm not expert by any means but here's what I would do if I were you: I would keep everything the same this week- diet, sodium levels, water intake, supplements, workouts. If you keep gaining more than 1/2 lb-1 lb, I would lower the calories. At least for tiny little ME, gaining more than 1/2 lb per week would be too much. I handled 2 lbs/mo just fine though.

[KellyFL]

I don't know how tall you are but for me (I'm 5'4" and pretty light) gaining 4-5 lbs would definitely affect how my tightest clothes fit. For instance, I just bought 2 pairs of jeans that are tight (not uncomfortably of course- just nicely form-fitting; as in, hot! :flirty: :lol: ). I know I'll be out of them 5 lbs from now. (I bought them for contest times since I was out of clothing options and everything was too big).
Ok I'm not expert by any means but here's what I would do if I were you: I would keep everything the same this week- diet, sodium levels, water intake, supplements, workouts. If you keep gaining more than 1/2 lb-1 lb, I would lower the calories. At least for tiny little ME, gaining more than 1/2 lb per week would be too much. I handled 2 lbs/mo just fine though.

I'm a shorty as well (5'2", so I got you beat Anca :p), and also light. I definitely second that my form fitting clothes that I was wearing at 110lbs are not an option now that I'm up 5lbs (also in a "bulking" phase, although I hate that phrase). I'm still very comfortable where I am though, and that I can get back down to that size if I choose to.

[Petro]

That is so interesting....just shows how different people are....I'm only 5'3'' as well (and that is with stretching, lol) and, like I said I can barely tell a difference other than across my back and shoulders in my clothes

[Lynny]

I don't know how tall you are but for me (I'm 5'4" and pretty light) gaining 4-5 lbs would definitely affect how my tightest clothes fit. For instance, I just bought 2 pairs of jeans that are tight (not uncomfortably of course- just nicely form-fitting; as in, hot! :flirty: :lol: ). I know I'll be out of them 5 lbs from now.

Ditto to this! I notice a difference in how my clothes fit with just 3-4 pounds more weight on me.

[fluteangel]

Yup, I'm 5'3", right in there with the shorties, and I have to say that a few pounds shows up on me pretty quickly. I've always noticed that I tend to put on weight pretty easily (whether it be muscle, fat or water, not sure, but my brother and mom are the same way) and I have what I would call an athletic hourglass shape: curves, but thick. Does that make sense? So, when I gain weight, it goes first to my stomach (bloat) and thighs, so my pants tend to get tight quickly. I have noticed that finally my shirts are getting too tight in areas other than the stomach area: across the back and shoulders, so I know it isn't all fat. :) Anca, while we're close to the same height, we're not the same build for sure; no one (but my husband) has ever called me light! :lol:


I wouldn't say I wear tight clothes, or form fitting clothes, but form flattering clothes yes. So the clothes I have aren't baggy nor do they have a lot of extra space so yes, it is possible to outgrow my clothes rather quickly. In fact, I was wearing a 0-2 when I started and yesterday I bought jeans in a size 6, in fact, all the 4's I tried on were too tight in the hips/thighs, so I completely skipped that size.

I would say that's proof enough it isn't all in my head. :) To put it all in perspective, when I started my bulk, I was at 124. Yesterday 5-6 weeks later I was at 132. Seems fast to me?

[fluteangel]

That is so interesting....just shows how different people are....I'm only 5'3'' as well (and that is with stretching, lol) and, like I said I can barely tell a difference other than across my back and shoulders in my clothes

That IS interesting! How would you describe your build?

[Petro]

That IS interesting! How would you describe your build?

I find this whole thing incredibly odd too....I honestly thought the clothes tightness was all in your head until the others weighed in on the issue :p

The best way to describe my build is tiny, small boned, small build, small all the way around...ectomorphic I suppose....hard gainer, easy loser

I am curious as to if I'm just oblivious to the fact that my clothes no longer fit:laugh: or why there is such a difference. Like I said pants fit fine, no real difference except now I fill out the butt a bit better, there are quite a few tops I don't wear anymore because they are too tight...but other than that

That is me, always the oddball

[fluteangel]

I find this whole thing incredibly odd too....I honestly thought the clothes tightness was all in your head until the others weighed in on the issue :p

The best way to describe my build is tiny, small boned, small build, small all the way around...ectomorphic I suppose....hard gainer, easy loser

I am curious as to if I'm just oblivious to the fact that my clothes no longer fit:laugh: or why there is such a difference. Like I said pants fit fine, no real difference except now I fill out the butt a bit better, there are quite a few tops I don't wear anymore because they are too tight...but other than that

That is me, always the oddball

There is no way my not fitting into my clothes is in my head. If you have a hard time zipping something you could zip before with no problem, well, I'd say that's a sign of weight gain. ;)

Even though we're the same height we are of COMPLETELY different builds. Whereas you are tiny, hard gainer, I am totally opposite - easy gainer, very sturdy built, not fat, but sturdy. I gain weight pretty quick and it all goes to where it makes it difficult for my pants to continue to fit. Not that they were tight before, but I dare say we have a difference in fit when it comes to pant sizes too. :laugh:

Your clothes probably still fit you maybe because you gain evenly or not as quickly? Just a guess.

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

I agree. I think depending on your bodytype, 4-5 lbs could be very different on different people, even those of the same height.

For example if you are more endomorphic, you might put on more fat as opposed to muscle. A mesomorphic type person usually puts on more muscle as opposed to fat. Depending on which person you are, your weight gain may effect how quickly you grow out of your clothes.

I do think it is so hard to judge how much weight you are gaining too though using the scale. My weight seems to fluctuate all over the place, and I am having a hard time judging my weight gain week to week based on it. Ive gone to more basing it on 2-3weeks time..and seeing what it is averaging, before making adjustments. But overall, Im going by how Im looking. The scale is just a tool, but it isnt the be all end all in what your body is doing. If I feel ok, and feel Im gaining strength and size in the areas Im focused on, than Im trying not to worry about my actual weight.

[smuggie]

I would say that's proof enough it isn't all in my head. :) To put it all in perspective, when I started my bulk, I was at 124. Yesterday 5-6 weeks later I was at 132. Seems fast to me?

That's less than 1.5 pounds per week. I'd say you're right on schedule.

[fluteangel]

Is it a "bad" thing to be hungry when you are bulking? There have been very few times my real hunger has kicked in, since I eat every few hours, making it easy to get in enough food. I've been playing around with the carb cycling thing and my food timing and such and today I've just been so hungry all day, even an hour after my PPWO meal I wanted food.

Just wondered if that meant anything "bad". :) And don't tell me it just means I need to eat, I figured that out. :lol: By bad I mean, should I ever have hunger when bulking or could it be (other obvious factors aside) that I need to up my total calories?

[Noel Clark]

Is it a "bad" thing to be hungry when you are bulking? There have been very few times my real hunger has kicked in, since I eat every few hours, making it easy to get in enough food. I've been playing around with the carb cycling thing and my food timing and such and today I've just been so hungry all day, even an hour after my PPWO meal I wanted food.

Just wondered if that meant anything "bad". :) And don't tell me it just means I need to eat, I figured that out. :lol: By bad I mean, should I ever have hunger when bulking or could it be (other obvious factors aside) that I need to up my total calories?

i was always hungry-even during bulking numbers. Unlike others on here, I didn't have a hard time eating the amount of food needed for a bulk. And no--just because you are hungry doesn't mean you ned to up your food.

[Inatic]

Tell me about it! I get hungrier with more food as well.

It could be your food choices? or volume of your food can be adjusted or even add a few veggies or salad and see if that helps.

Pwo if i chose bagged treats or 'junk' , it doesnt satisfy me.. I will often chose something more filling like potato, oats or most often rice cakes and jam. Mine are like 30 carbs a cake so i get more than some of the traditional ones. In additon, I add lots of ice to my shakes which helps fill me up.

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

i was always hungry-even during bulking numbers. Unlike others on here, I didn't have a hard time eating the amount of food needed for a bulk. And no--just because you are hungry doesn't mean you ned to up your food.


Ya Im the same, Im usually hungry and always waiting for my next meal. Some days Im sooo hungry, other days not as much. Im much hungrier on my lower carb days usually. My weight has been increasing steadily, so although I get tempted to up my calories (I just want to! :D), I dont. I would say I have absolutely no trouble either eating the amount of food I need to hehe.

[fluteangel]

If you get to a point that you are uncomfortable-then take a couple weeks to diet some of the fat off and then resume your bulk.

I think I have reached this point or am close to it. Is there a thread about diong this? I was just wondering how much of a deficit to create; drop 10%, 100-200 cals, up the cardio :faint:?

I feel like the bulking so far has gone well and my pictures show growth, but I also think I grew too fast and I have put on more fat than I would like instead of muscle, so I'd like to diet some of it back off before resuming my bulking. I was thinking of taking a short diet break, maybe 2 weeks or so, keeping my workout plan the same, before going back to my bulking, but not upping the calories to where they were, like I said, I think I gained too fast. So in the meantime, I'm scaling the calories back a bit.

Suggestions?

[Petro]

I think I have reached this point or am close to it. Is there a thread about diong this? I was just wondering how much of a deficit to create; drop 10%, 100-200 cals, up the cardio :faint:?

I feel like the bulking so far has gone well and my pictures show growth, but I also think I grew too fast and I have put on more fat than I would like instead of muscle, so I'd like to diet some of it back off before resuming my bulking. I was thinking of taking a short diet break, maybe 2 weeks or so, keeping my workout plan the same, before going back to my bulking, but not upping the calories to where they were, like I said, I think I gained too fast. So in the meantime, I'm scaling the calories back a bit.

Suggestions?


How much weight have you gained? How long has it been for you now?

I'm no expert on bulking :lol: just curious

[fluteangel]

How much weight have you gained? How long has it been for you now?

I'm no expert on bulking :lol: just curious

I started the bulk at 124, I'm now 133.8 and today started week 10. However, my competition weight was 114, and so I was up 10 lbs. from that when I started the bulk, and I guarantee it wasn't all water :( If you see my pictures, you can see what I mean. Yeah, I'm gaining muscle, but I really feel like I'm not gaining a lot of muscle, but gaining too much fat. I thought a short diet would show me otherwise or maybe help me figure out if I should change my workout....or leave everything alone! :)

Recap: up 10 lbs. from start of bulk, up 20 lbs. from contest weight, today starts week 10.

[Petro]

I started the bulk at 124, I'm now 133.8 and today started week 10. However, my competition weight was 114, and so I was up 10 lbs. from that when I started the bulk, and I guarantee it wasn't all water :( If you see my pictures, you can see what I mean. Yeah, I'm gaining muscle, but I really feel like I'm not gaining a lot of muscle, but gaining too much fat. I thought a short diet would show me otherwise or maybe help me figure out if I should change my workout....or leave everything alone! :)

Recap: up 10 lbs. from start of bulk, up 20 lbs. from contest weight, today starts week 10.

Where are your pictures posted?

[fluteangel]

Where are your pictures posted?

In my journal and I started a thread in pictures and videos and smuggie posted a link to it there

[Scarl3tbutt3rfly]

If you started at 124 and are now 133...in 10 weeks, 1lb a week seems like a good growth rate, not too much.

Im struggling with all this mentally too, so I understand where you are coming from. I guess I just really want to enjoy this time as much as possible, and with only really a month left before I have to start thinking about cutting back, Im not willing to diet right now.

[fluteangel]

If you started at 124 and are now 133...in 10 weeks, 1lb a week seems like a good growth rate, not too much.

Im struggling with all this mentally too, so I understand where you are coming from. I guess I just really want to enjoy this time as much as possible, and with only really a month left before I have to start thinking about cutting back, Im not willing to diet right now.

Yes, it is a good growth rate, but seeing as how I started 10 lbs. over contest rate, it doesn't make me feel very good. Plus, my numbers have jumped all over the place. They even out, but some weeks I gained 3 lbs. Yes, I know it's not all fat, but when 2 lbs. didn't come off the next week....see? It's also tough finding pants that fit, I'm down to one pair to wear for all my jobs! I was shooting for 1/2 lb. a week, so I feel like I've gone up too much too quick. If I had not had such a nasty rebound, and had started from there, I'd be better off, mentally.

It helps to have support of others going through this, and it's my first time to do it, so it's messing with my head! :)