Cheat vs Binge

[Erik]

In your opinion, what is the difference between an unplanned cheat, let's call it a big cheat, and a binge?

[Meechel]

for me the two binges I have had were uncontrolled unplanned non stop eating and my mind was at the state I didn't care what my stomach would feel like after or the weight I might possibly add etc.....lots of guilt with this and the thought of possibly making myself sick to compensate for the actions.

Cheats for me are a controlled choice I make to eat something not on my agenda for the day of my foods. I had a nutty bar package and oatmeal creme pie the other night but I was in control and made that choice and counted it as a cheat meal (even though had 2 cookies earlier in the day). No guilt with these.

[Blondell]

You have complete control over a cheat. A binge feels like some primal urge when it happens (at least they did in the past for me). It was as if my mind shut off and my body took over...so to speak.

[smuggie]

Read the question again. Erik sad a bad, unplanned cheat, not a moderate, planned cheat.

[Blondell]

Read the question again. Erik sad a bad, unplanned cheat, not a moderate, planned cheat.

My answer is the same. I read the question correctly. :p

[smuggie]

My answer is the same. I read the question correctly. :p

Way to backpedal. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/smiles%20and%20laughter%20smilies/operatongue2.gif

[Blondell]

Way to backpedal. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/smiles%20and%20laughter%20smilies/operatongue2.gif

:ban:

[smuggie]

:ban:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/smiles%20and%20laughter%20smilies/nyagh.gif

[Erik]

You have complete control over a cheat.

Even if it's unplanned? You just cave for example.

Is that still considered complete control?

[Meechel]

Even if it's unplanned? You just cave for example.

Is that still considered complete control?

my cheat wed night was not planned but I had complete control because I knew once I ate those two pieces I was done.

And I still stick to my answer too. There is huge difference mentally between binge and cheat, planned or not.

[Erik]

my cheat wed night was not planned but I had complete control because I knew once I ate those two pieces I was done.


Right. Gotcha on that.

But I'm asking about a BIG unplanned cheat. Sounds like yours was small and controlled.

The difference between a little unplanned cheat and a binge I think is pretty clear to most of us.

The difference between a large, unplanned cheat and a binge - that's what I'd like to hear opinions on.

[Meechel]

Let me think on it.....don't know if I have hard a LARGE unplanned cheat but many unplanned ones.

:popcorn: to see what others say.

[KellyFL]

I don't think I've ever "binged"... although I certainly cheat with a few M&M's or an extra Tbsp of PB sometime. So I am curious as to the mentality of a binge too.

[Cara]

I would have to venture and say there is no difference between a large, unplanned cheat and a binge and here's why:
If you're not planning a free meal and just cave and take a BIG cheat then you've already lost the control that to me marks the difference between a free meal and a binge. That's how I see it anyway.
I have mindlessly eaten small amounts before and could easily see that becoming a HUGE binge if I hadn't regained control. I still think of it as a binge, though, because there was no thought behind the eating. It was purely mindless, almost compulsive, eating.
:shrug:

[Amy]

Right. Gotcha on that.

But I'm asking about a BIG unplanned cheat. Sounds like yours was small and controlled.

The difference between a little unplanned cheat and a binge I think is pretty clear to most of us.

The difference between a large, unplanned cheat and a binge - that's what I'd like to hear opinions on.
I think people are quick to call (IMO) a large unplanned cheat a binge. TO me it is just that- a large unplanned cheat. My weekend at the lakehouse was a large unplanned (well as the day went on it became planned) cheat. Not a binge. I was in "control" not stuffing myself mindlessly.

I don't think I ever had a binge before. Then again everyones definition is different :shrug:

[Cara]

I think people are quick to call (IMO) a large unplanned cheat a binge. TO me it is just that- a large unplanned cheat. My weekend at the lakehouse was a large unplanned (well as the day went on it became planned) cheat. Not a binge. I was in "control" not stuffing myself mindlessly.

I don't think I ever had a binge before. Then again everyones definition is different :shrug:

Yes, I agree with you on your example. The cheat became planned as the day progressed. If you just started eating having not made a conscience decision to take that free meal then would you see it differently?

[Erik]

I would have to venture and say there is no difference between a large, unplanned cheat and a binge and here's why:
If you're not planning a free meal and just cave and take a BIG cheat then you've already lost the control that to me marks the difference between a free meal and a binge. That's how I see it anyway.

Thanks for your thoughts Cara.

So then, why do people throw around the word binge so much ... instead of just 'a cheat'.

Binge has such a bigger connotation associated with it.



I have mindlessly eaten small amounts before and could easily see that becoming a HUGE binge if I hadn't regained control. I still think of it as a binge, though, because there was no thought behind the eating. It was purely mindless, almost compulsive, eating.
:shrug:

So a binge is a huge cheat. But is a huge cheat a binge?

[Amy]

Yes, I agree with you on your example. The cheat became planned as the day progressed. If you just started eating having not made a conscience decision to take that free meal then would you see it differently?

I guess I always thought a binge was consuming a crap ton of calories. But I can see your point.

And mine wasn't a free meal, is was more like a free day...or two. But we ate some healthy things and them some not so healthy things. So I am not sure what I would call it other than a non comliant weekend. :sad:

[Cara]

So then, why do people throw around the word binge so much ... instead of just 'a cheat'.

Binge has such a bigger connotation associated with it.

So a binge is a huge cheat. But is a huge cheat a binge?

I think binge connotes a mindlessness that a cheat does not. So if someone says they binged, to me it means they were in a bad place mentally and ate without thought. There was no intention behind it, nor was there ability to control it.

And to answer your question about can a huge cheat be a binge, yes, I think so. If I have a birthday coming up and plan on eating cake, ice cream, pizza and chips that's a pretty big free meal. But I've prepared for it. It becomes a binge when I keep eating beyond what I've planned and don't pay attention to my goals any longer. It's the point, IMO, that control is lost when a free meal becomes a binge.
But a huge cheat is NOT inherently a binge if it's planned. It can become one, though.

[Blondell]

Even if it's unplanned? You just cave for example.

Is that still considered complete control?

Yes, but you consciously make the decision to do so. Most times, an unplanned cheat is decided upon b/f it happens.

[Erik]

Yes, but you consciously make the decision to do so. Most times, an unplanned cheat is decided upon b/f it happens.

Technically so is a binge then, no? Decision to put food in mouth.

[Blondell]

Technically so is a binge then, no? Decision to put food in mouth.

It's different really. In my experience, binges have started without much though on my part at all. There were times that I'd not realize how much damage I'd done until I was sick.

I believe that we have control over both. BUT in binges, you've given that power over to the food. If you don't take it back, it becomes habit. And, habits are done w/o a second thought. ;)

[Meechel]

I think binge connotes a mindlessness that a cheat does not. So if someone says they binged, to me it means they were in a bad place mentally and ate without thought. There was no intention behind it, nor was there ability to control it.

And to answer your question about can a huge cheat be a binge, yes, I think so. If I have a birthday coming up and plan on eating cake, ice cream, pizza and chips that's a pretty big free meal. But I've prepared for it. It becomes a binge when I keep eating beyond what I've planned and don't pay attention to my goals any longer. It's the point, IMO, that control is lost when a free meal becomes a binge.But a huge cheat is NOT inherently a binge if it's planned. It can become one, though.

:goodpost: to the bold. I have had one like that where it was free meal and didn't stop nor care if I stopped and I had one that wasn't free meal and just started eating and eating until my daughter said something.

I don't use the word binge lightly and I know how I felt both times and it was nothing like any of my cheat meals planned or not.

[Sohee]

A cheat for me, planned or unplanned, big or small, involves some enjoyment of the food. I savor it, I taste it, I lick my lips and rub my belly -- and I'm done. I'm able to walk away from a cheat without an incredible urge to go back for more. There's a clear endpoint, and once I reach it, I'm all set.

With a binge comes a huge roller coaster of emotions and thoughts constantly clashing against each other. I see something, and before I know it it's in my mouth. Not much thought. Absolutely no enjoyment. I'm not really aware of the flavor/taste of the food; it's just a lot of substance being shoveled down my throat. One thing that I am keenly aware of in the midst of a binge is this overwhelming "I'm such a monster" :taz: It's as though I become a completely different person. There's anger, resentment, encouragement, angel vs. devil moments towards the binge. And I find it extremely difficult to stop once and for all. In the end (because of course there is, eventually, an end) all I'm left with is guilt, shame, and a very rotund belly.

Another thing for me personally: I'm okay with having a cheat in the company of others (friends/family), but I wouldn't dare binge in anyone's presence. Binges always happen to me when I'm alone.

[Mols]

I feel the same as above......a binge to me is when I have lost all mentality associated with enjoying the food im eating. I wouldnt even really taste the foods I was stuffing my face with, just kept eating cuz it was readily available. Id be full and still be shoveling the crap in. With a full on unplanned cheat meal, im thoroughly enjoying the food im tasting and not really caring about being "off plan". Theres a huge difference for me. After binging id feel like shit, especially physically Id be so full Id wanna just sleep and be depressed. After a cheat im all like wow that tasted amazing, ill get back on track at the next meal. Just my experiences.

[jaleena]

Even if it's unplanned? You just cave for example.

Is that still considered complete control?
Well...for me, this usually means my boss walked in with baked goods from her kitchen. I know it will be very good, know it will not be as good the next day, and know I can't have some next week. So almost always, I'll have some...but it's usually in the 150cals range. So yeah, I'd say complete control.
Other than that, any noteworthy deviation from plan comes in the form of changing the plan--ie, deciding that the plan is no longer applicable to my situation. Like when I went from a 40hrs workweek to a 70hrs workweek, it just required something else. But I know that isn't as easy to do when working with someone.

[BigDog]

Cheats and binges are entirely different. It has nothing to do with quantity of food and everything to do with emotion. Some people consume huge amounts of food on holidays, at parties or other social occasions. That is not a binge.


A binge, as stated before, is emotionally driven. When I binge, I shut down and shovel in. There is secrecy. As also stated, there is no enjoyment in the food itself and it is a compulsive, frenzied, out of control behavior followed by resentment, remorse and self-loathing. I'm always standing and reaching during a binge, never sitting at a table. I am in the cupboards, in the fridge, in the freezer, demolishing huge amounts of food until my stomach literally won't hold anymore. I can't function well mentally or physically after a binge. I can't sleep because I have thrown my metabolism into such a crazy state, I can't stop sweating.

An unplanned cheat, no matter how large it is, would not be a binge unless it was this kind of compulsive, "I can't stop" eating. I think a lot of people mistake having that 5th slice of pizza and extra slice of pie as a binge, which it is not. In my opinion anyway.

[Sohee]

Cheats and binges are entirely different. It has nothing to do with quantity of food and everything to do with emotion. Some people consume huge amounts of food on holidays, at parties or other social occasions. That is not a binge.


A binge, as stated before, is emotionally driven. When I binge, I shut down and shovel in. There is secrecy. As also stated, there is no enjoyment in the food itself and it is a compulsive, frenzied, out of control behavior followed by resentment, remorse and self-loathing. I'm always standing and reaching during a binge, never sitting at a table. I am in the cupboards, in the fridge, in the freezer, demolishing huge amounts of food until my stomach literally won't hold anymore. I can't function well mentally or physically after a binge. I can't sleep because I have thrown my metabolism into such a crazy state, I can't stop sweating.

An unplanned cheat, no matter how large it is, would not be a binge unless it was this kind of compulsive, "I can't stop" eating. I think a lot of people mistake having that 5th slice of pizza and extra slice of pie as a binge, which it is not. In my opinion anyway.

Agree strongly with all points, esp. about the standing. I'm never, NEVER sitting during a binge.

[Erik]

It becomes a binge when I keep eating beyond what I've planned and don't pay attention to my goals any longer. It's the point, IMO, that control is lost when a free meal becomes a binge.

Ok,so just to continue the thoughts and discussion ...

So it's a binge when you decide to eat beyond what you planned and don't pay attention to the goals any longer ...

So, last night my planned cheat was pizza - lots of it. However, I decided at the last minute to also have chips and Ben & Jerry's ice cream. Ate so much my stomach was killing me.

Cheat or binge?

[jaleena]

Why choose to eat beyond satiety/fullness/comfort?

[Blondell]

Ok,so just to continue the thoughts and discussion ...

So it's a binge when you decide to eat beyond what you planned and don't pay attention to the goals any longer ...

So, last night my planned cheat was pizza - lots of it. However, I decided at the last minute to also have chips and Ben & Jerry's ice cream. Ate so much my stomach was killing me.

Cheat or binge?

Cheat. You overdid it, but it was still a cheat.


Think of a smoker. At first, they make conscious decisions to puff away, but after a while they begin to smoke w/o thinking about it. Binging, IMO, is very similar to this. The smoker has to fight urges to grab a smoke after it becomes a habit...it can be very very very difficult. They same applies to someone trying to overcome binging.

[kates13]

Ok,so just to continue the thoughts and discussion ...

So it's a binge when you decide to eat beyond what you planned and don't pay attention to the goals any longer ...

So, last night my planned cheat was pizza - lots of it. However, I decided at the last minute to also have chips and Ben & Jerry's ice cream. Ate so much my stomach was killing me.

Cheat or binge?

Im gonna chime in here, because I feel like I have experienced a great deal of both...from the outside, I would consider that a cheat. For me, I have eaten TONS and TONS of food, but its not a binge for me unless I "flip the switch". I go numb to everything else. I dont taste the food. And for me, there is no enjoyment out of a binge. A LARGE unplanned cheat; yes, I may eat the same amount of calories, and I may feel sick to your stomach, but i am still enjoying the food; and am still tasting it. Control may be compromised a little, but nowhere near the loss of it I have with a binge. In my opinion, it is so hard for someone who hasn't experienced it to wrap their brain around it. It is just an awful thing to experience.

[Amy]

Im gonna chime in here, because I feel like I have experienced a great deal of both...from the outside, I would consider that a cheat. For me, I have eaten TONS and TONS of food, but its not a binge for me unless I "flip the switch". I go numb to everything else. I dont taste the food. And for me, there is no enjoyment out of a binge. A LARGE unplanned cheat; yes, I may eat the same amount of calories, and I may feel sick to your stomach, but i am still enjoying the food; and am still tasting it. Control may be compromised a little, but nowhere near the loss of it I have with a binge. In my opinion, it is so hard for someone who hasn't experienced it to wrap their brain around it. It is just an awful thing to experience.
I like the points you make here.
Although I have never experience the numbness or no enjoyment, I am interested to here other peoples experiences.
Since most people have said that they go numb or they don't make the "choice" to do it. What causes most to start the binge?

[kates13]

I like the points you make here.
Although I have never experience the numbness or no enjoyment, I am interested to here other peoples experiences.
Since most people have said that they go numb or they don't make the "choice" to do it. What causes most to start the binge?

For me, there have been 2 ways I have started. Years ago, I went through some pretty bad binge cycles, and I would actually 'plan the binge'. I would go to the store and get cookies, cakes, cereal, etc, knowing I was going to eat it all. I think that is the extreme. Most binges start very innocently. And extra bowl of cereal, an extra scoop of ice cream, and then it is all downhill. In my mind, I would say, I can have an extra bowl of cereal, no big deal. And then all of a sudden, before I knew it, I would find myself shoveling food in as fast as I posssibly could. It is hard to pinpoint when the loss of feeling/loss of control happens. I still am at a loss as to why it happens. So, I wasnt much help was i, ha! :)

[Amy]

For me, there have been 2 ways I have started. Years ago, I went through some pretty bad binge cycles, and I would actually 'plan the binge'. I would go to the store and get cookies, cakes, cereal, etc, knowing I was going to eat it all. I think that is the extreme. Most binges start very innocently. And extra bowl of cereal, an extra scoop of ice cream, and then it is all downhill. In my mind, I would say, I can have an extra bowl of cereal, no big deal. And then all of a sudden, before I knew it, I would find myself shoveling food in as fast as I posssibly could. It is hard to pinpoint when the loss of feeling/loss of control happens. I still am at a loss as to why it happens. So, I wasnt much help was i, ha! :)
So when you were "planning" (when shopping for the items) were you not thinking about your goals etc. Or are you kind of numb/one-track mind at that point?
Sorry for all the questions. :oops:

[kates13]

So when you were "planning" (when shopping for the items) were you not thinking about your goals etc. Or are you kind of numb/one-track mind at that point?
Sorry for all the questions. :oops:

No problem! :) Well, actually, now that I think about it, usually the shopping occurred after I had already started, so I had had that extra bowl of cereal, etc, and my mind was already fixated on getting that food as soon as possible and start shoveling it in. The thing is, it could be the littlest bit that triggers it at times. I remember years ago, I was AT WORK, and someone brought in donuts. I had two, and all I could think about was more! more! I actually left and got more food at 7-11 and ate til I was sick. I wasnt even able to go back to work. It does become this one track fixation. I was completely powerless. It doesnt make sense, I know, because one would think, 'of course you can control it'. And with a large cheat, for example, and for most people, they can. I am far from the person that can explain the science behind it, or what actually happens to the body when this starts to happen. I just know 'something' happens that is not 'I ate til i was sick cause i wanted food.' It isnt about the food at all.

[Patricia]

Cheats and binges are entirely different. It has nothing to do with quantity of food and everything to do with emotion. Some people consume huge amounts of food on holidays, at parties or other social occasions. That is not a binge.


A binge, as stated before, is emotionally driven. When I binge, I shut down and shovel in. There is secrecy. As also stated, there is no enjoyment in the food itself and it is a compulsive, frenzied, out of control behavior followed by resentment, remorse and self-loathing. I'm always standing and reaching during a binge, never sitting at a table. I am in the cupboards, in the fridge, in the freezer, demolishing huge amounts of food until my stomach literally won't hold anymore. I can't function well mentally or physically after a binge. I can't sleep because I have thrown my metabolism into such a crazy state, I can't stop sweating.

An unplanned cheat, no matter how large it is, would not be a binge unless it was this kind of compulsive, "I can't stop" eating. I think a lot of people mistake having that 5th slice of pizza and extra slice of pie as a binge, which it is not. In my opinion anyway.


For me, there have been 2 ways I have started. Years ago, I went through some pretty bad binge cycles, and I would actually 'plan the binge'. I would go to the store and get cookies, cakes, cereal, etc, knowing I was going to eat it all. I think that is the extreme. Most binges start very innocently. And extra bowl of cereal, an extra scoop of ice cream, and then it is all downhill. In my mind, I would say, I can have an extra bowl of cereal, no big deal. And then all of a sudden, before I knew it, I would find myself shoveling food in as fast as I posssibly could. It is hard to pinpoint when the loss of feeling/loss of control happens. I still am at a loss as to why it happens. So, I wasnt much help was i, ha! :)


No problem! :) Well, actually, now that I think about it, usually the shopping occurred after I had already started, so I had had that extra bowl of cereal, etc, and my mind was already fixated on getting that food as soon as possible and start shoveling it in. The thing is, it could be the littlest bit that triggers it at times. I remember years ago, I was AT WORK, and someone brought in donuts. I had two, and all I could think about was more! more! I actually left and got more food at 7-11 and ate til I was sick. I wasnt even able to go back to work. It does become this one track fixation. I was completely powerless. It doesnt make sense, I know, because one would think, 'of course you can control it'. And with a large cheat, for example, and for most people, they can. I am far from the person that can explain the science behind it, or what actually happens to the body when this starts to happen. I just know 'something' happens that is not 'I ate til i was sick cause i wanted food.' It isnt about the food at all.

Everything above is absolutely me whenI binge.
I can't just 'think of my goals' or just stop once I have started. Sure, I have walked to the kitchen about to start and then said "no!" and turned away....but even that is rare.

I am either eating super clean for weeks on end (like, during contest prep) or cycling between clean eating and binges. I think the only reason I am NOT obese right now from the amount of food I can put away during the binges is because I manage to train/diet enough to stay one step ahead of that weight gain.

[BigDog]

Im gonna chime in here, because I feel like I have experienced a great deal of both...from the outside, I would consider that a cheat. For me, I have eaten TONS and TONS of food, but its not a binge for me unless I "flip the switch". I go numb to everything else. I dont taste the food. And for me, there is no enjoyment out of a binge. A LARGE unplanned cheat; yes, I may eat the same amount of calories, and I may feel sick to your stomach, but i am still enjoying the food; and am still tasting it. Control may be compromised a little, but nowhere near the loss of it I have with a binge. In my opinion, it is so hard for someone who hasn't experienced it to wrap their brain around it. It is just an awful thing to experience.

Exactly.

[BigDog]

Everything above is absolutely me whenI binge.
I can't just 'think of my goals' or just stop once I have started. Sure, I have walked to the kitchen about to start and then said "no!" and turned away....but even that is rare.

I am either eating super clean for weeks on end (like, during contest prep) or cycling between clean eating and binges. I think the only reason I am NOT obese right now from the amount of food I can put away during the binges is because I manage to train/diet enough to stay one step ahead of that weight gain.

I don't compete but like you, the only reason I am not huge is because I cycle and try to "compensate" for my binges with days of controlled eating and very strenuous training. Last week, I probably did over 20 hours of SS cardio, 2 HIIT sessions and high intensity circuits 3 days. I'm 34, almost 35 and there is no way I can keep going like this. People think I'm lying when I tell them I have binge eating disorder because I am not fat. My doctor laughed at me. It's frustrating to say the least.:pimpslap:

[Erik]

Some excellent posts and distinctions. :thumb:

[smuggie]

I don't compete but like you, the only reason I am not huge is because I cycle and try to "compensate" for my binges with days of controlled eating and very strenuous training. Last week, I probably did over 20 hours of SS cardio, 2 HIIT sessions and high intensity circuits 3 days. I'm 34, almost 35 and there is no way I can keep going like this. People think I'm lying when I tell them I have binge eating disorder because I am not fat. My doctor laughed at me. It's frustrating to say the least.:pimpslap:

Isn't this the norm for people who suffer from BED?

[Inatic]

My doctor laughed at me.

You need a new doctor! Idiot! (him not you!)

THere ED hotlines and help.

www.somethingfishy.org

[Espi]

Is there a calorie definition for people when it comes to huge cheats/binges?

ZWould anyone also say it's a binge when you've had say less than 2500 kcal for the day? Or still call it a cheat day if you'd had over 6000 kcal?

[BigDog]

Isn't this the norm for people who suffer from BED?

No, actually the typical person with BED or compulsive overeating is overweight.

"Binge eating disorder is probably the most common eating disorder. Most people with this problem are either overweight or obese,* but normal-weight people also can have the disorder."

http://www.medicinenet.com/binge_eating_disorder/article.htm

[BigDog]

You need a new doctor! Idiot! (him not you!)

THere ED hotlines and help.

www.somethingfishy.org

In her eyes because my BMI :horseshit: is borderline underweight, she didn't see that my binges were hurting my health. Other than this one issue, she is actually the first doctor I have ever had that I actually like.

I've visited this site many times. I actually contacted the ED Specialists listed in my area from this site to see if I could find someone who would work with me.

[BigDog]

Is there a calorie definition for people when it comes to huge cheats/binges?

ZWould anyone also say it's a binge when you've had say less than 2500 kcal for the day? Or still call it a cheat day if you'd had over 6000 kcal?

Again, I don't think it's the "number" of calories consumed or the amount of food as much as the mindset and lack of control.

[Espi]

See, I've had people comment so often how my food intake was a binge, while I thought the 'loss of control' was that
- I'd not care about my goals once I was eating so much
-further back in the past I would really not be able to stop as a result of poor carb processing as well as overexercising

Right now I'm feeling truly blessed that carbs satiate me much more, so I can make smart decisions when I choose to diet.
However I'm still madly in love with food.. and want to indulge.. more specifically on those days that Aunt Flo is beckoning (mid-cycle and at the end).

Somehow people seem to think it's wrong to enjoy food.. even junkfood up to and over 4000kcal/day?
What if you're budgeting for it? What if you deliberately want to have only a small overall deficit but eat at a bigger deficit to 'save up for that splurge"?

I've been thinking it's like how you choose to go walking/cycling if you don't have the money for a car yet, rather than spend them on cab/bus/train rides, so that in the end, the saved money will eventually buy you that car.
It's balancing the budget book and who cares if your expenses are 'not' balanced? It's been bugging me for a long time. Yeah, I get my protein (2-2.2g/kg LBM per diet day and up to 4g/kg LBM) & EFAs alright.. so no worries here.
Was it really binges what I had or were they just large cheats.. and how wrong is really to love cheat days/meals and budget for them?

Where's the flaw in my thinking?

[BigDog]

See, I've had people comment so often how my food intake was a binge, while I thought the 'loss of control' was that
- I'd not care about my goals once I was eating so much
-further back in the past I would really not be able to stop as a result of poor carb processing as well as overexercising

Right now I'm feeling truly blessed that carbs satiate me much more, so I can make smart decisions when I choose to diet.
However I'm still madly in love with food.. and want to indulge.. more specifically on those days that Aunt Flo is beckoning (mid-cycle and at the end).

Somehow people seem to think it's wrong to enjoy food.. even junkfood up to and over 4000kcal/day?
What if you're budgeting for it? What if you deliberately want to have only a small overall deficit but eat at a bigger deficit to 'save up for that splurge"?

I've been thinking it's like how you choose to go walking/cycling if you don't have the money for a car yet, rather than spend them on cab/bus/train rides, so that in the end, the saved money will eventually buy you that car.
It's balancing the budget book and who cares if your expenses are 'not' balanced? It's been bugging me for a long time. Yeah, I get my protein (2-2.2g/kg LBM per diet day and up to 4g/kg LBM) & EFAs alright.. so no worries here.
Was it really binges what I had or were they just large cheats.. and how wrong is really to love cheat days/meals and budget for them?

Where's the flaw in my thinking?

They don't sound like binges to me. You are enjoying the food and that is key. As for budgeting your calories, personally I think it is fine. Weight loss and maintenance is about checks and balances. I know from personal experience, it doesn't really matter how much, when or what you eat, as long as your calories are in line with your needs. That's bodyweight of course, not necessarily composition. :wink:

[Inatic]

In her eyes because my BMI :horseshit: is borderline underweight, she didn't see that my binges were hurting my health. Other than this one issue, she is actually the first doctor I have ever had that I actually like.

I've visited this site many times. I actually contacted the ED Specialists listed in my area from this site to see if I could find someone who would work with me.

she doesnt see a problem with you over compensating with exercise?

[Patricia]

I bought a book a while back "ovecoming binge eating" and while they do have a self help program inside, I haven't tackled it just yet as I am not in a position to eat 'whatever I want..." right now.

Anyway, it describes the binge cycle, for me anyway, perfectly...

basically....
strict dieting -----> binge eating ------> strict dieting

Basically a never ending circle of dieting and bingeing. You diet too strict and end up bingeing...then start the strict diet again because you binged....

Also describes a typical binge:

an exerpt describing someones Full Blown Binge:
I eat and I eat. Usually very fast and without enjoyment--apart from inital taste pleasure, which anyway, is tempered with guilt. usually furtively and in one place--at home, the kitchen....I eat until I physically cannot eat any more.....immediately afterwards I am so physically bloated that emotions are dulled, but later I feel terrible....

An unplanned cheat or whatever is so much different.

[BigDog]

she doesnt see a problem with you over compensating with exercise?

We didn't discuss how much exercise I was doing. Honestly, after she laughed, I didn't feel like pursuing it. Probably my mistake.

[BigDog]

I bought a book a while back "ovecoming binge eating" and while they do have a self help program inside, I haven't tackled it just yet as I am not in a position to eat 'whatever I want..." right now.

Anyway, it describes the binge cycle, for me anyway, perfectly...

basically....
strict dieting -----> binge eating ------> strict dieting

Basically a never ending circle of dieting and bingeing. You diet too strict and end up bingeing...then start the strict diet again because you binged....

Also describes a typical binge:

an exerpt describing someones Full Blown Binge:
I eat and I eat. Usually very fast and without enjoyment--apart from inital taste pleasure, which anyway, is tempered with guilt. usually furtively and in one place--at home, the kitchen....I eat until I physically cannot eat any more.....immediately afterwards I am so physically bloated that emotions are dulled, but later I feel terrible....

An unplanned cheat or whatever is so much different.

Got this one, too. Are you dieting for a show right now, Patricia?

[Patricia]

Got this one, too. Are you dieting for a show right now, Patricia?

Yes. I have a ways to go though. If I don't feel I am on track 6 weeks out I may abort....we'll see..

[BigDog]

Yes. I have a ways to go though. If I don't feel I am on track 6 weeks out I may abort....we'll see..

Well, good luck with whatever you decide.:lifter: It's nice to see you back "on". :ninja:

[Espi]

The thing about the description of binge cycles is that it doesn't discern between purposefully overfeeding and 'caving in' after serious undereating.
That's a really fine line, but a very important distinction.
Unfortunately it's not always clear, as like I said.. other people can make you feel guilty. Heck over on Oxygen there's girls who think eating 100kcal over budget is already a binge!


For BigDog the exercise is a means to 'purge' the excess calories.. but you are aware of the fact that exercise can also make you very hungry and set up for those very same binges? The best thing I ever did was listen to my buddies (Ileen :shades: ) and decrease cardio.. I've actually stopped doing any indoor cardio altogether and just walk.
The difference in decreased appetite was simply stunning, as well as the improved ability to have better control.

Why not do something really scary and...





stop exercising altogether for just 1 week? Or 2 when you're feeling brave?
It's OK when you overfeed ... but I may bet the severity will lessen. Especially when you allow yourself to eat what you want, when you want and as much as you want. What do you think?

[Inatic]

We didn't discuss how much exercise I was doing. Honestly, after she laughed, I didn't feel like pursuing it. Probably my mistake.

if she knew you were exercising to compensate? That is called exercise bulimia. You probably should have told her maybe she'd have stop laughing.

[BigDog]

The thing about the description of binge cycles is that it doesn't discern between purposefully overfeeding and 'caving in' after serious undereating.
That's a really fine line, but a very important distinction.
Unfortunately it's not always clear, as like I said.. other people can make you feel guilty. Heck over on Oxygen there's girls who think eating 100kcal over budget is already a binge!


For BigDog the exercise is a means to 'purge' the excess calories.. but you are aware of the fact that exercise can also make you very hungry and set up for those very same binges? The best thing I ever did was listen to my buddies (Ileen :shades: ) and decrease cardio.. I've actually stopped doing any indoor cardio altogether and just walk.
The difference in decreased appetite was simply stunning, as well as the improved ability to have better control.

Why not do something really scary and...





stop exercising altogether for just 1 week? Or 2 when you're feeling brave?
It's OK when you overfeed ... but I may bet the severity will lessen. Especially when you allow yourself to eat what you want, when you want and as much as you want. What do you think?

I've tried this and honestly, it made no difference in my binges. I've taken time off, given up on restricting, you name it. I actually had more binges because I had more time on my hands. :D It isn't a hunger issue for me.

I appreciate the suggestion, though. At this point, nothing is as scary to me as the thought of these binges continuing for much longer. After 3 years without a single one, I really thought this was over.

[BigDog]

if she knew you were exercising to compensate? That is called exercise bulimia. You probably should have told her maybe she'd have stop laughing.

You're right, I should have told her. I'm not a huge fan of doctors, not that anyone is. Maybe I'll call her on Monday and discuss it with her. I should also add that other than true bulimia (I can't make myself), I've had bouts with all the ED's, including anorexia. Food has been a constant issue in my life since I was in high school.

[Dree]

Right. Gotcha on that.

But I'm asking about a BIG unplanned cheat. Sounds like yours was small and controlled.

The difference between a little unplanned cheat and a binge I think is pretty clear to most of us.

The difference between a large, unplanned cheat and a binge - that's what I'd like to hear opinions on.

They are the same, they both stunt progress.

[Anca]

Great thread! :thumb:
Like others have said, for me a cheat is a controlled amount of food that I truly savor and enjoy. It may be a big amount of food (as far as quantity or calories or both) but it is still controlled. After a cheat, I feel satisfied and I'm ready to hit it hard again (the diet and the training).
In contrast, a binge is associated with a certain "desperation"- "I won't get to eat this for a long time so I better cram it in". The food is eaten without enjoyment, well past the point of physical fullness, despite the awareness of it (hurting stomach). After a binge, one feels terribly guilty and many times engages in compensatory behaviors (semi-starvation for a few days, extra cardio).

[chrysalis1]

Cheats and binges are entirely different. It has nothing to do with quantity of food and everything to do with emotion.

A binge, as stated before, is emotionally driven. When I binge, I shut down and shovel in. There is secrecy. As also stated, there is no enjoyment in the food itself and it is a compulsive, frenzied, out of control behavior followed by resentment, remorse and self-loathing. I'm always standing and reaching during a binge, never sitting at a table. I am in the cupboards, in the fridge, in the freezer, demolishing huge amounts of food until my stomach literally won't hold anymore. I can't function well mentally or physically after a binge. I can't sleep because I have thrown my metabolism into such a crazy state, I can't stop sweating.



I agree and relate to that totally. Especially the sweating part. I am so literal at times I had to look up the definitions for the words "binge" and "cheat". Unrestrained , excessive and compulsion are the words used in the definition of a binge. Dishonesty , fraud and the like are used in the definition of cheat.

Now free meals for me are just that. Sometimes big sometimes small, but they are that for me " free" . When I joined LBC, I have not really binged at all. Now I came pretty damned close to an all out , let's eat to escape this mortgage bs, this fight with hubby, but at worst I had more than my allowed free meals this biweekly and struggled to get back on, but obessession, compulsion and unrestrained were not issues. I actually was able to stop.

The cheat part for me per definition was wanting to be dishonest about it on my biweekly. So when I eat off plan depending on the mental motivation, I am choosing food to feel better and just simply eating off plan, or I am having a FREE meal, whatever or how much it is for that meal.

That's my newbie 2 cents. HA!