PDA

View Full Version : body part vs full body



tanyab
05-31-2006, 06:09 PM
I have been training for almost 6 years. I usually weight train 4 days per week.

I was wondering if it would be beneficial to change it up and do full body workouts, like in the sticky, for 4-6 weeks?

I am looking to lose some body fat and tone what I have.

Thanks

PowerManDL
05-31-2006, 06:10 PM
Body part training once a week is about as inefficient as it gets in terms of strength training.

Erik
05-31-2006, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 31 2006, 02:10 PM
Body part training once a week is about as inefficient as it gets in terms of strength training.
Yeah, but what about Flex Magazine? And all the guys in my gym ... who don't look like they train?

We'll never break this myth.

donnajo
05-31-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 31 2006, 01:11 PM
Yeah, but what about Flex Magazine? And all the guys in my gym ... who don't look like they train?

We'll never break this myth.
But don't I need a biceps, triceps, calves, thumb and big toe day? ;) :lol:

tanyab
05-31-2006, 06:15 PM
What is a good training split?? :scratch:

PowerManDL
05-31-2006, 06:19 PM
You'll want to make sure to hit each bodypart no less than every 5 days, as often as 4-5 times a week, with 2-3 times a week being the middle ground.

Pinky
05-31-2006, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by donnajo+May 31 2006, 12:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (donnajo @ May 31 2006, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunder@May 31 2006, 01:11 PM
Yeah, but what about Flex Magazine? And all the guys in my gym ... who don&#39;t look like they train?

We&#39;ll never break this myth.
But don&#39;t I need a biceps, triceps, calves, thumb and big toe day? ;) :lol: [/b][/quote]
As far as I am aware, most compound exercises will incorporate these muscle groups anyway, therefore no need to have a "bicep day" etc.

Hoochiemomma
05-31-2006, 06:26 PM
Those split squats are killer on my big toes....

Pinky
05-31-2006, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Hoochiemomma@May 31 2006, 12:26 PM
Those split squats are killer on my big toes....
SEE&#33; No need to have a Big Toe day....

quickie
05-31-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Pinky+May 31 2006, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 31 2006, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by donnajo@May 31 2006, 12:13 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Thunder@May 31 2006, 01:11 PM
Yeah, but what about Flex Magazine? And all the guys in my gym ... who don&#39;t look like they train?

We&#39;ll never break this myth.
But don&#39;t I need a biceps, triceps, calves, thumb and big toe day? ;) :lol:
As far as I am aware, most compound exercises will incorporate these muscle groups anyway, therefore no need to have a "bicep day" etc. [/b][/quote]
She was joking. :p

quickie
05-31-2006, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 31 2006, 06:19 PM
You&#39;ll want to make sure to hit each bodypart no less than every 5 days, as often as 4-5 times a week, with 2-3 times a week being the middle ground.
How would you do 4 or 5 times a week?

PowerManDL
05-31-2006, 06:47 PM
Full body sessions, or specialization work. Though those are techniques I wouldn&#39;t recommend in most cases. They have utility, but most either don&#39;t need them, would completely fuck them up, or both.

LisaBunny
05-31-2006, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 31 2006, 01:11 PM
Yeah, but what about Flex Magazine? And all the guys in my gym ... who don&#39;t look like they train?

We&#39;ll never break this myth.
Well duh...jay cutler does it so it must be the right way to train&#33; :finger:

this month FLEX also has a "supplement guide" to get HUUUUUUGE :flex:

Jenny
05-31-2006, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Hoochiemomma@May 31 2006, 01:26 PM
Those split squats are killer on my big toes....
But aren&#39;t you afraid that your Big Toes will get too bulky...I only want to tone my Big Toes. :lol:

donnajo
05-31-2006, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Jenny@May 31 2006, 03:08 PM
But aren&#39;t you afraid that your Big Toes will get too bulky...I only want to tone my Big Toes. :lol:
:funny:

Hoochiemomma
05-31-2006, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Jenny@May 31 2006, 01:08 PM
But aren&#39;t you afraid that your Big Toes will get too bulky...I only want to tone my Big Toes. :lol:
Oh yah, they are really bulking up. Gettin&#39; veiny too.

absolut_blonde
06-01-2006, 06:28 AM
What I don&#39;t get is, how do girls who follow these bodypart splits manage to gain any muscle at all? Especially when you consider that many people don&#39;t know much about proper nutrition either.

I just ask because I&#39;ve been busting my ass to gain some&#33; Eating well above maintenence, doing a decent (I think-- I&#39;ve been doing my homework :compute:) routine, trying to do everything correctly, etc. And it *is* working, but it&#39;s sure a slow process. Yet I see girls with nice bodies at the gym who do a bodypart split :scratch: I have no doubt that it isn&#39;t the most efficient way to go, I just wonder how it&#39;s successful at all when I try to do things the proper way and it&#39;s still a long haul.

PowerManDL
06-01-2006, 06:47 AM
http://koksland.lap.pl/anavar-30-5mg.jpg

absolut_blonde
06-01-2006, 07:01 AM
LOL, that did cross my mind. Who knows&#33;

I mean, they aren&#39;t ripped-- especially not by this board&#39;s standards-- but they sure have more muscle than my scrawny self. I had no idea trying to gain would be so tricky.

Strive2Define
06-01-2006, 12:39 PM
What about doing a full body split 3 times per week PLUS setting aside an extra day for legs all by themselves?Is this too much?

Erik
06-01-2006, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Strive2Define@Jun 1 2006, 08:39 AM
What about doing a full body split 3 times per week PLUS setting aside an extra day for legs all by themselves?Is this too much?
Why? 3x week to hit legs isn&#39;t enough?

Strive2Define
06-01-2006, 12:49 PM
Well it is probably enough but in all honesty,legs is my favorite body part to work.I just don&#39;t feel as if I have targeted them well unless I am limping out of the gym( I know this is a fallacy and not a good indicator of a effective workout) PLUS I would rather do just about ANYTHING over cardio these days.
So would it be to my detriment?

Erik
06-01-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Strive2Define@Jun 1 2006, 08:49 AM
Well it is probably enough but in all honesty,legs is my favorite body part to work.I just don&#39;t feel as if I have targeted them well unless I am limping out of the gym( I know this is a fallacy and not a good indicator of a effective workout) PLUS I would rather do just about ANYTHING over cardio these days.
So would it be to my detriment?
Yes

People need to get off this more is better attitude.

Strive2Define
06-01-2006, 12:54 PM
I know you are correct and I say this to myself probably 10x per day.I guess I will just have to stick with nasty HIIT<grumble grumble>

Vtek33
06-03-2006, 08:01 PM
Powerman: Are you saying that body part splits don&#39;t work without drugs? I was hoping that absolut blond&#39;s question would get answered.

Sunshine
06-03-2006, 08:10 PM
I would never dream of answering for Matt, but...
in a nutshell, for non-drug enhanced trainees, a body part split is not generally very effective.

Vtek33
06-03-2006, 08:14 PM
I know people who do are natural BB&#39;ers who have competed and won using a coach who did body part splits. I was just interested in why some people believe it is ineffective.

Sunshine
06-03-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Vtek33@Jun 3 2006, 04:14 PM
I know people who do are natural BB&#39;ers who have competed and won using a coach who did body part splits. I was just interested in why some people believe it is ineffective.
Not ineffective in as much as not optimally effective.

Erik
06-03-2006, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Sunshine@Jun 3 2006, 04:30 PM
Not ineffective in as much as not optimally effective.
Correct

It&#39;s an inefficient way to train. Why would a muscle need so much time b/w sessions?

Vtek33
06-03-2006, 08:40 PM
I was reading this and it seems like there is pros and cons to each way of training. http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?art...06-028-training (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-028-training)

janey
06-03-2006, 10:27 PM
Matt posted this over at :o2: about bodypart training. I&#39;ve saved it because it explains it really well.


Originally posted by PowerManDL
Simply put, it doesn&#39;t maximize the elements you need to maximize.

Post-workout recovery (really any post-stress recovery, same goes for sickness, physical injury, and so on) occurs like a wave. There&#39;s an immediate decrease in the state, then an increase back to the original state, then a subsequent "supercompensation" where the body actually overcompensates for the stress. In this case, the desired outcome is more contractile proteins in the muscle.

The once-a-week routines are based on the idea that this occurs as a unit. Ie, everything follows that wave.

Unfortunately, everything out there research-wise, and anecdotally, suggests that this isnt&#39; the case. Stress and recovery wrt strength training is a multifactorial process. You have neurological elements (both central and peripheral), glycogen replenishment, protein synthesis, physical damage to the muscle/inflammation, and so on. All of these recover on different time scales.

Protein synthesis (what you&#39;re really seeking to maximize) peaks and returns to baseline within 48-72 hours after exercise. If you&#39;re only training a muscle once every 7 days, that means that protein synthesis is actually detraining for 4-5 days out of every week.

The once-a-week routines try to make up for this with a higher volume/intensity of work...but even so, PS always returns to baseline within 3 days. What you&#39;re recovering from is a combination of neurological and mechanical damage to the system....which doesn&#39;t contribute a whole lot to hypertrophy (the mechanical damage can, but even that&#39;s gone within 4-5 days; the neurological overload is what can take 7+ days to recover from).

With that in mind, the ideal split would train the muscles based on that idea....to keep PS elevated, you&#39;d need to train each part every 2-3 days. That&#39;s where the full-body stuff comes in. If you want to exploit the mechanical damage, you can extend that a litte, say every 5th day. But I wouldn&#39;t go any longer than that, barring recovery/unloading weeks.

The reason the once-a-week splits work in the "pros" is because of drugs. When you&#39;re running 2 grams of anabolics a week combined with other partitioning drugs, a drop in PS isn&#39;t going to happen. So they can blast a part, see the increase, and not have to worry about losing anything until they hit it again the next week.

Naturals don&#39;t have that luxury.

mark
06-04-2006, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by janey@Jun 3 2006, 03:27 PM
Matt posted this over at :o2:
LMAO&#33;&#33;&#33; You crack me up. :funny:

MJTWO
06-05-2006, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by janey+Jun 3 2006, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (janey @ Jun 3 2006, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Matt posted this over at :o2: about bodypart training. I&#39;ve saved it because it explains it really well.

<!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL
Simply put, it doesn&#39;t maximize the elements you need to maximize.

Post-workout recovery (really any post-stress recovery, same goes for sickness, physical injury, and so on) occurs like a wave. There&#39;s an immediate decrease in the state, then an increase back to the original state, then a subsequent "supercompensation" where the body actually overcompensates for the stress. In this case, the desired outcome is more contractile proteins in the muscle.

The once-a-week routines are based on the idea that this occurs as a unit. Ie, everything follows that wave.

Unfortunately, everything out there research-wise, and anecdotally, suggests that this isnt&#39; the case. Stress and recovery wrt strength training is a multifactorial process. You have neurological elements (both central and peripheral), glycogen replenishment, protein synthesis, physical damage to the muscle/inflammation, and so on. All of these recover on different time scales.

Protein synthesis (what you&#39;re really seeking to maximize) peaks and returns to baseline within 48-72 hours after exercise. If you&#39;re only training a muscle once every 7 days, that means that protein synthesis is actually detraining for 4-5 days out of every week.

The once-a-week routines try to make up for this with a higher volume/intensity of work...but even so, PS always returns to baseline within 3 days. What you&#39;re recovering from is a combination of neurological and mechanical damage to the system....which doesn&#39;t contribute a whole lot to hypertrophy (the mechanical damage can, but even that&#39;s gone within 4-5 days; the neurological overload is what can take 7+ days to recover from).

With that in mind, the ideal split would train the muscles based on that idea....to keep PS elevated, you&#39;d need to train each part every 2-3 days. That&#39;s where the full-body stuff comes in. If you want to exploit the mechanical damage, you can extend that a litte, say every 5th day. But I wouldn&#39;t go any longer than that, barring recovery/unloading weeks.

The reason the once-a-week splits work in the "pros" is because of drugs. When you&#39;re running 2 grams of anabolics a week combined with other partitioning drugs, a drop in PS isn&#39;t going to happen. So they can blast a part, see the increase, and not have to worry about losing anything until they hit it again the next week.

Naturals don&#39;t have that luxury. [/b][/quote]
Thanks for saving that info. I&#39;ve been doing full body workouts for last couple of weeks FEELS GREAT&#33;