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Kathryn
05-02-2006, 11:59 PM
I was told by this woman who has her pro card at my gym that I should really consider powerlifting...she said she saw me the other day doing 4 reps at 200 lbs and just in general lifting a lot...My question is if I do consider powerlifting right now, can I still try get the body of a figure competitor or would I have to increase cals and gain weight and change up my routine? My main focus right now is to lean down.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 12:01 AM
PLing doesn't lend itself too well to getting super-lean. You can keep reasonably lean though.

But it will build a lot of muscle, which makes it easier to cut up later on.

EDIT: Just lifting to PL doesn't mean you can't work on aesthetic goals at the same time, either.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 12:06 AM
Okay..Thanks for answering! So would just lifting "like a powerlifter" be good enough with eating submaintainance?

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 12:09 AM
You won't see much improvement on the lifts, but if you manage the volume on the big stuff it should work.

My suggestion if you choose to pursue it as a sport is just to keep calories under control so that you don't really gain fat while building the lifts, then lean out with specific dieting phases.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 12:01 AM
But it will build a lot of muscle, which makes it easier to cut up later on.

Somebody forgot to tell my body that. :dry:

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 01:25 AM
That's cause they also forgot to tell you to eat :D

Pandora
05-03-2006, 01:34 AM
In a few years I think I'll switch to powerlifting.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 01:25 AM
That's cause they also forgot to tell you to eat :D
I eat plenty.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 01:34 AM
In a few years I think I'll switch to powerlifting.
Why in a few years? Why not now?

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 2 2006, 11:15 PM
I eat plenty.
Yeah, but you also don't typically get in a lot of working volume either (based on what I've seen from most of your workouts, that could have changed since I've seen any). That's key to size gains.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:25 AM
Yeah, but you also don't typically get in a lot of working volume either (based on what I've seen from most of your workouts, that could have changed since I've seen any). That's key to size gains.
How much volume constitutes working volume?

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:30 AM
25-50 (or more) reps per part per session, upwards of 75-100+ per week.

EDIT: This would be on the "big" stuff, and not count any accessory metabolic/"pumping" work that could add to growth.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:35 AM
I definitely don't do that much.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 12:35 AM
I definitely don't do that much.
And that is likely why you're not seeing muscle growth.

Remember what I told you a loooong time ago back on Rugged, about changing up the ME and DE prescriptions to something more along the lines of sets of 5? That's why. It helps build a base of muscle.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:39 AM
And that is likely why you're not seeing muscle growth.

Remember what I told you a loooong time ago back on Rugged, about changing up the ME and DE prescriptions to something more along the lines of sets of 5? That's why. It helps build a base of muscle.
Yes, but you can't use the same loading parameters indefinitely.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:39 AM
And that is likely why you&#39;re not seeing muscle growth.

Remember what I told you a loooong time ago back on Rugged, about changing up the ME and DE prescriptions to something more along the lines of sets of 5? That&#39;s why. It helps build a base of muscle.
Yes, but you can&#39;t use the same loading parameters indefinitely. [/b][/quote]
Nobody said you had to.

But you can and should plan training within the context of overall goals, even if the specifics flucutate.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:45 AM
I&#39;m so lost when it comes to knowing what to do with my training it&#39;s not even funny. :lol: :dry:

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:48 AM
In fact, look at it this way.

If you do ME work in the following way:

1) Work up to a 1-3RM, then do 3-5x3-5 as back off or;

2) Work up to a 5RM

and do DE work as:

1) 4-6x4-6, moderately heavy or;

2) 8-10x5, with standard DE parameters

Then you&#39;ve basically gotten a high-intensity/low-volume day and a moderate-intensity/high volume day each week. You&#39;re focusing on building strength and speed-strength, but with enough overlap on intensive hypertrophy and enough working volume to build size.

Now go look at what Starr&#39;s 5x5 does, especially with Pendlay&#39;s tweaks.

Make a little more sense?

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:52 AM
I don&#39;t do DE work for my second bench day. I&#39;m still doing RE work.


8-10x5, with standard DE parameters

I&#39;m not sure what you mean by the above. Standard DE parameters for speed squat day are 8-10 x 2.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 12:52 AM
I don&#39;t do DE work for my second bench day. I&#39;m still doing RE work.



I&#39;m not sure what you mean by the above. Standard DE parameters for speed squat day are 8-10 x 2.
No, I mean the weight used and the whole compensatory-acceleration thing.

If you were brave you could even throw bands on.

All I mean is change the reps to fives, and don&#39;t alter the number of sets or % used.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:56 AM
If you were brave you could even throw bands on.

I&#39;m ready for bands? :unsure:

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 05:15 AM
I wouldn&#39;t think so ;-)

I&#39;m not sure *I* am ready for bands on that kind of volume.

Amy
05-03-2006, 01:27 PM
Hey Smuggie, Matt, can one of you explain or suggest an article/site of where to find an article, that covers what you were just talking about. The DE, ME and what not....and the theory behind the training.

Pandora
05-03-2006, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 2 2006, 10:15 PM
Why in a few years? Why not now?
Because I&#39;m pretty bent on my physique goals at present and I want to get to a certain point physique-wise before hopping into this. If I don&#39;t I have a feeling I&#39;ll waffle back and forth.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:48 AM
1) Work up to a 1-3RM, then do 3-5x3-5 as back off or;

At what intensity should I do the backoff sets?

smuggie
05-03-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Amy@May 3 2006, 01:27 PM
Hey Smuggie, Matt, can one of you explain or suggest an article/site of where to find an article, that covers what you were just talking about. The DE, ME and what not....and the theory behind the training.
This article series will give you an idea of the basics behind what Matt and I are talking about.

This is Part IV. The links to parts I, II and III are in there.

Keep in mind, the philosophy behind Westside or conjugate training (what is now referred to as concurrent training) has evolved since Tate penned these articles.

Eight Keys (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459483)

Amy
05-03-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 10:47 AM
This article series will give you an idea of the basics behind what Matt and I are talking about.

This is Part IV. The links to parts I, II and III are in there.

Keep in mind, the philosophy behind Westside or conjugate training (what is now referred to as concurrent training) has evolved since Tate penned these articles.

Eight Keys (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459483)
Thanks Smuggie.....I&#39;m going to read up now&#33;


EDIT: Smuggie - these articles are great&#33;

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 04:45 AM
I&#39;m so lost when it comes to knowing what to do with my training it&#39;s not even funny. :lol: :dry:
I here yea&#33; I&#39;m confused on my goals as of right now...still..

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Pandora+May 3 2006, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pandora @ May 3 2006, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 2 2006, 10:15 PM
Why in a few years? Why not now?
Because I&#39;m pretty bent on my physique goals at present and I want to get to a certain point physique-wise before hopping into this. If I don&#39;t I have a feeling I&#39;ll waffle back and forth. [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s what I&#39;m confused about...I&#39;m wanting to lower my weight down significantly but I still wanna lift and somewhat look hard...lol so I&#39;m thinking about focusing on cardio for now...thinking maybe about running a marathon by the end of the summer but still liftin weights...then in september focus on bulking up again...and end up doing powerlifting or a figure comp.. ;)

Forged
05-03-2006, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 08:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 08:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 01:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 2 2006, 10:15 PM
Why in a few years? Why not now?
Because I&#39;m pretty bent on my physique goals at present and I want to get to a certain point physique-wise before hopping into this. If I don&#39;t I have a feeling I&#39;ll waffle back and forth.
That&#39;s what I&#39;m confused about...I&#39;m wanting to lower my weight down significantly but I still wanna lift and somewhat look hard...lol so I&#39;m thinking about focusing on cardio for now...thinking maybe about running a marathon by the end of the summer but still liftin weights...then in september focus on bulking up again...and end up doing powerlifting or a figure comp.. ;) [/b][/quote]
You won&#39;t look hard training for a marathon.

Pandora
05-03-2006, 03:44 PM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

I need a good base physique so that when and if I do PL I&#39;ll feel ok with any extra "padding" I may have. :)

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Forged+May 3 2006, 03:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Forged @ May 3 2006, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 01:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 2 2006, 10:15 PM
Why in a few years? Why not now?
Because I&#39;m pretty bent on my physique goals at present and I want to get to a certain point physique-wise before hopping into this. If I don&#39;t I have a feeling I&#39;ll waffle back and forth.
That&#39;s what I&#39;m confused about...I&#39;m wanting to lower my weight down significantly but I still wanna lift and somewhat look hard...lol so I&#39;m thinking about focusing on cardio for now...thinking maybe about running a marathon by the end of the summer but still liftin weights...then in september focus on bulking up again...and end up doing powerlifting or a figure comp.. ;)
You won&#39;t look hard training for a marathon. [/b][/quote]
....true...I guess I mean "lean" then...I just would feel more comfortable with losing 30 lbs. first by means of running,lifting,and diet ...right now, I haven&#39;t been running...I was looking at 3-4 days of my "used to be usual" 4/5 mile run and do my 4 days of lifting...

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

I need a good base physique so that when and if I do PL I&#39;ll feel ok with any extra "padding" I may have. :)
Pandora I think you look great&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 10:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 10:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 04:48 AM
1) Work up to a 1-3RM, then do 3-5x3-5 as back off or;

At what intensity should I do the backoff sets? [/b][/quote]
Whatever allows you to get your chosen reps, be it 3x3, 3x5, 5x5. A specific intensity is almost useless to prescribe.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 11:44 AM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

I need a good base physique so that when and if I do PL I&#39;ll feel ok with any extra "padding" I may have. :)
I credit most of the physique I have with the powerlifts and similar big, heavy movements. That stuff built my frame.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL+May 3 2006, 04:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PowerManDL @ May 3 2006, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pandora@May 3 2006, 11:44 AM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

I need a good base physique so that when and if I do PL I&#39;ll feel ok with any extra "padding" I may have. :)
I credit most of the physique I have with the powerlifts and similar big, heavy movements. That stuff built my frame. [/b][/quote]
I&#39;ll second that. PL training did more for my physique than BB training ever did.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

So, does that mean you think you have to become a fatass to be a PL?

Pandora
05-03-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 11:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 11:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pandora@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp. And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing. I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now. And that just cannot be. :lol:

So, does that mean you think you have to become a fatass to be a PL? [/b][/quote]
No, no, no.. :lol: I&#39;ve just always heard that PLing does not lend itself well to leanness. I am not lean now by any stretch of the imagination... and I want to see what my frame looks like underneath this blubber I have and then go from there.

Judging by how you look, Mo, I&#39;d say PLing can be great for the physique. :D

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Pandora+May 3 2006, 04:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pandora @ May 3 2006, 04:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:28 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Pandora@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
If I can ever get my endocrine system under control I&#39;d love to do a natural bbing comp.* And from there, I&#39;d like to start PL&#39;ing.* I feel like if I just go from where I am now physique-wise into PL&#39;ing I&#39;ll never get any leaner than I am now.* And that just cannot be. :lol:

So, does that mean you think you have to become a fatass to be a PL?
No, no, no.. :lol: I&#39;ve just always heard that PLing does not lend itself well to leanness. I am not lean now by any stretch of the imagination... and I want to see what my frame looks like underneath this blubber I have and then go from there.

Judging by how you look, Mo, I&#39;d say PLing can be great for the physique. :D [/b][/quote]
That&#39;s what I thought too&#33; I thought you couldn&#39;t get lean by PL....hell if I can get lean and lose some poundage then I would do it&#33;

smuggie
05-03-2006, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 04:36 PM
[QUOTE=Pandora,May 3 2006, 04:32 PM]That&#39;s what I thought too&#33; I thought you couldn&#39;t get lean by PL....hell if I can get lean and lose some poundage then I would do it&#33;
Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.

Pandora
05-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:46 AM

Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.
Quite true. But I&#39;d like to get good and lean for once so I can revel in it, then build some serious mass and get STRONG. I could stay lean-ish, yes, but I want to see a six pack before I change my direction. :D

Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you??

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 05:00 PM
The only difference between bodybuilding and powerlifting (ideally) is the specifics of what you&#39;re peaking for. The general basics are the same.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 04:51 PM
Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you??
There&#39;s not much new to show.

I&#39;ve been eating above maintenance for over two months now, but I&#39;m not sure if I&#39;ve put on any muscle.

I&#39;ll have to take some progress pics once I&#39;m settled in after moving.

ShaliHead
05-03-2006, 06:04 PM
Hi Smuggie&#33;

Shali

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Pandora+May 3 2006, 04:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pandora &#064; May 3 2006, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:46 AM

Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.
Quite true. But I&#39;d like to get good and lean for once so I can revel in it, then build some serious mass and get STRONG. I could stay lean-ish, yes, but I want to see a six pack before I change my direction. :D

Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you?? [/b][/quote]
I swear Pandora..me and u have the same mind frame&#33;

Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do??

krispy1138
05-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 06:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 04:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:46 AM

Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.
Quite true. But I&#39;d like to get good and lean for once so I can revel in it, then build some serious mass and get STRONG. I could stay lean-ish, yes, but I want to see a six pack before I change my direction. :D

Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you??
I swear Pandora..me and u have the same mind frame&#33;

Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do?? [/b][/quote]
You might be due for a break from dieting. Depending on your leanness, you should take a break every 4-12 weeks (or so I&#39;ve read :p )

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by krispy1138+May 3 2006, 06:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (krispy1138 @ May 3 2006, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 04:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:46 AM

Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.
Quite true. But I&#39;d like to get good and lean for once so I can revel in it, then build some serious mass and get STRONG. I could stay lean-ish, yes, but I want to see a six pack before I change my direction. :D

Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you??
I swear Pandora..me and u have the same mind frame&#33;

Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do??
You might be due for a break from dieting. Depending on your leanness, you should take a break every 4-12 weeks (or so I&#39;ve read :p ) [/b][/quote]
I&#39;m not lean what-so-ever...so what would you suggest?

krispy1138
05-03-2006, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by krispy1138@May 3 2006, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 04:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 3 2006, 11:46 AM

Leanness is a function of diet.

You can stay lean(ish) while doing PL training if you keep your diet under control.
Quite true. But I&#39;d like to get good and lean for once so I can revel in it, then build some serious mass and get STRONG. I could stay lean-ish, yes, but I want to see a six pack before I change my direction. :D

Hey Smugs, aren&#39;t we due for new pictures from you??
I swear Pandora..me and u have the same mind frame&#33;

Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do??
You might be due for a break from dieting. Depending on your leanness, you should take a break every 4-12 weeks (or so I&#39;ve read :p )
I&#39;m not lean what-so-ever...so what would you suggest? [/b][/quote]
Take one week to gradually raise to maintenance and stay at maintenance one week. Make sure during that time you are eating at least 100 grams of carbs a day, too.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 06:58 PM
Ok, look at this objectively.

Why do you think I can get away eating like absolute crap and never gaining a pound?

It&#39;s because I&#39;m carrying so much muscle for one, and because I&#39;m so active on top of that. The PL-based workouts I do take a lot of energy, and for a 200+ lb man that&#39;s carrying a lot of muscle, I&#39;m basically a walking calorie sink.

Training with big, heavy movements requires a lot of energy. Carrying a lot of muscle requires a lot of energy.

It just happens that PL-type training, with some slight mods for physique goals (mostly exercise selection and volume/intensity tweaks), is very, very good for building up muscle.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by ShaliHead@May 3 2006, 06:04 PM
Hi Smuggie&#33;

Shali
Here&#39;s the non-finger version of the waving smiley:

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/wave.gif

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 06:58 PM
Ok, look at this objectively.

Why do you think I can get away eating like absolute crap and never gaining a pound?

It&#39;s because I&#39;m carrying so much muscle for one, and because I&#39;m so active on top of that. The PL-based workouts I do take a lot of energy, and for a 200+ lb man that&#39;s carrying a lot of muscle, I&#39;m basically a walking calorie sink.

Training with big, heavy movements requires a lot of energy. Carrying a lot of muscle requires a lot of energy.

It just happens that PL-type training, with some slight mods for physique goals (mostly exercise selection and volume/intensity tweaks), is very, very good for building up muscle.
hmmm..alrighty...so why wouldn&#39;t figure competitors train like this?? or do they? it makes much sense to do it I guess if you are trying to lean down&#33; any specific lifts that they do?

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 07:04 PM
Figure competitors don&#39;t need gobs of muscle.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 07:04 PM
Figure competitors don&#39;t need gobs of muscle.
but it would be a good idea to lean down? and size down?

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 06:30 PM
Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do??
I suggest carb cycling. But I think you should bump up your calories to maintenance again before you start. You&#39;re definitely not eating enough, and I&#39;m sure you don&#39;t want to go right back into metabolic hell again.

1600 calories would be right for me if I wanted to lose fat and I weigh 40 pounds less than you do.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 03:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 07:04 PM
Figure competitors don&#39;t need gobs of muscle.
but it would be a good idea to lean down? and size down? [/b][/quote]
No, not really.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 06:58 PM
Training with big, heavy movements requires a lot of energy.

This is essentially why I was maintaining on 17.5-18 calories/lb. of BW, and don&#39;t appear to have gained weight even though I&#39;m eating above maintenance now.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 07:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kathryn@May 3 2006, 06:30 PM
Smuggie...I&#39;m eating clean, and reached maintainance in Feb (I was eating way too little before) and have been submaintainance now since the middle of Feb...after about 2 months of decreasing cals by 500, I still didn&#39;t see a change..the scale actually went up so now I cut back down 200 cals...which I&#39;m not sure if I should be doing that or not... :eek: I&#39;m at 1600 cals now...which I know I&#39;m not getting enough cals in but I haven&#39;t been losing any weight/bf.... I weigh 173-175 now..so what should I do??
I suggest carb cycling. But I think you should bump up your calories to maintenance again before you start. You&#39;re definitely not eating enough, and I&#39;m sure you don&#39;t want to go right back into metabolic hell again.

1600 calories would be right for me if I wanted to lose fat and I weigh 40 pounds less than you do. [/b][/quote]
alrighty...will do no matter how much I don&#39;t want to...

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 07:13 PM
Protein turnover and supercompensation takes a lot of energy.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 07:13 PM
Protein turnover and supercompensation takes a lot of energy.
Supercompensation? That ties in with single-factor theory, which is not what PL training is based on.

Do you mean it in a different way in this case?

jaleena
05-03-2006, 07:18 PM
Kathryn, Smuggie&#39;s right that 1600 isn&#39;t nearly enough for you. :oops:

FWIW, I don&#39;t think taking up PL would be a bad idea at all. It certainly wouldn&#39;t require gaining weight/fat...it&#39;s weight classed, so aside from the SHW folks, there&#39;s incentive to stay a reasonable size.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 07:13 PM
alrighty...will do no matter how much I don&#39;t want to...
You might not want to, but you have to.

Strive2Define
05-03-2006, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Forged+May 3 2006, 11:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Forged @ May 3 2006, 11:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Pandora@May 3 2006, 01:59 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 2 2006, 10:15 PM
Why in a few years? Why not now?
Because I&#39;m pretty bent on my physique goals at present and I want to get to a certain point physique-wise before hopping into this. If I don&#39;t I have a feeling I&#39;ll waffle back and forth.
That&#39;s what I&#39;m confused about...I&#39;m wanting to lower my weight down significantly but I still wanna lift and somewhat look hard...lol so I&#39;m thinking about focusing on cardio for now...thinking maybe about running a marathon by the end of the summer but still liftin weights...then in september focus on bulking up again...and end up doing powerlifting or a figure comp.. ;)
You won&#39;t look hard training for a marathon. [/b][/quote]
Forged is right..you are more likely to strip down most of that hard earned muscle once you start your marathon training.

kjinwa
05-03-2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33; I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.

smuggie
05-03-2006, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33; I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.

Keep in mind, Westside is only one school of PL methodology.

It&#39;s not the final word.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I hate having to eat pizza, chicken wings, and cheeseburgers all the time, and drinking lots of beer.

Oh wait, no I don&#39;t.

kjinwa
05-03-2006, 07:29 PM
Where else should I look?

I just did a quick internet search, but most of the sites that came up sounded like they were just advertising equipment.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Look up 5x5 by Bill Starr or Glenn Pendlay.

Ed Coan.

Boris Sheiko.

Doug Hepburn had some good strength-stuff if you can find it online.

There&#39;s a lot of good stuff on www.deepsquatter.com as well. Pavel might have some good info in the articles on www.dragondoor.com

kjinwa
05-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 12:34 PM
Look up 5x5 by Bill Starr or Glenn Pendlay.

Ed Coan.

Boris Sheiko.

Doug Hepburn had some good strength-stuff if you can find it online.

There&#39;s a lot of good stuff on www.deepsquatter.com as well. Pavel might have some good info in the articles on www.dragondoor.com
Thanks&#33; :D

ShaliHead
05-03-2006, 08:19 PM
This thread made me realize that I have no idea what I&#39;m doing. That&#39;s discouraging. I want to see my muscles and be lean. I don&#39;t necessarily want to get big slabs of muscle. So I am sub maintainence and lifting heavy. Is this right? God, I feel like such a newb. Smuggie, Powerman-help me would ya?

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33; I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds...

strongchick
05-03-2006, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by ShaliHead@May 3 2006, 08:19 PM
This thread made me realize that I have no idea what I&#39;m doing. That&#39;s discouraging. I want to see my muscles and be lean. I don&#39;t necessarily want to get big slabs of muscle. So I am sub maintainence and lifting heavy. Is this right? God, I feel like such a newb. Smuggie, Powerman-help me would ya?
You&#39;re a woman: you won&#39;t get big slabs of muscle.

What you&#39;re doing will maintain the muscle you have and shed fat. You can&#39;t gain muscle eating sub maintenance.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 07:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 07:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Kathryn@May 3 2006, 07:13 PM
alrighty...will do no matter how much I don&#39;t want to...
You might not want to, but you have to. [/b][/quote]
do I have to slowly creep back up again so I won&#39;t gain more fat..I&#39;ve been at 1600 only for 2 weeks..with a cheat day in there..

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 09:02 PM
I&#39;d just keep a mild deficit....10-20%...and lift hard on a solid PL-ish routine. Throw in a day or two of cardio and you&#39;ll have it.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 09:02 PM
I&#39;d just keep a mild deficit....10-20%...and lift hard on a solid PL-ish routine. Throw in a day or two of cardio and you&#39;ll have it.
alrighty ...thanks&#33;

smuggie
05-03-2006, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33; I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds... [/b][/quote]
You need to do conventional DLs too, not just SLDLs.

Amy
05-03-2006, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 05:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 05:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33;* I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds...
You need to do conventional DLs too, not just SLDLs. [/b][/quote]
oooh, Smuggie, you need to go read what PMDL wrote in the "any suggestions on this routine" thread....about the need of deadlifts....

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Amy@May 3 2006, 05:58 PM
oooh, Smuggie, you need to go read what PMDL wrote in the "any suggestions on this routine" thread....about the need of deadlifts....
Actually that&#39;s not entirely applicable here. That was more for physique/aesthetic purposes.

For a PLer, especially a beginner to intermediate, technique work is a must, which means including DL work.

I can&#39;t do it as much as I get stronger because, to do the volume I&#39;d need with the weight I&#39;d need on DLs would absolutely wreck me. The squat is a lot more conducive to that type of work, and consequently I can keep DL work to a bare minimum.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 09:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 09:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33;* I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds...
You need to do conventional DLs too, not just SLDLs. [/b][/quote]
why&#39;s that?...are you talking about for a PL training or just in general?

smuggie
05-03-2006, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Kathryn+May 3 2006, 07:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kathryn @ May 3 2006, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33; I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds...
You need to do conventional DLs too, not just SLDLs.
why&#39;s that?...are you talking about for a PL training or just in general? [/b][/quote]
Everybody needs to do DLs.

SLDLs work primarily the hammies.

Conventional DLs work the whole backside of your body. They&#39;re as essential to perform as squats.

Kathryn
05-03-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by smuggie+May 3 2006, 11:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (smuggie @ May 3 2006, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Kathryn@May 3 2006, 04:38 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-kjinwa@May 3 2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting thread&#33;* I&#39;ve been wanting to learn a little bit about PL.....can&#39;t wait to check out the articles later.


Kathyrn: I do figure and I have deadlifts, bench and other "big lifts" in my programs.
oh I do them too..I love doing SLD&#39;s and full squats..love them to death..I&#39;m not afraid of lifting at all...It&#39;s just the matter of stripping off the fat and losing pounds...
You need to do conventional DLs too, not just SLDLs.
why&#39;s that?...are you talking about for a PL training or just in general?
Everybody needs to do DLs.

SLDLs work primarily the hammies.

Conventional DLs work the whole backside of your body. They&#39;re as essential to perform as squats. [/b][/quote]
Thanks so much Smuggie&#33;&#33; Never knew that&#33; Now I can&#39;t wait to try them out when I have my Friday Lower Body Session&#33; ROCK ON&#33;

ShaliHead
05-03-2006, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by strongchick@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
You&#39;re a woman: you won&#39;t get big slabs of muscle.

What you&#39;re doing will maintain the muscle you have and shed fat. You can&#39;t gain muscle eating sub maintenance.
Will I lose muscle being sub-maintenence?

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 3 2006, 07:34 PM
Conventional DLs work the whole backside of your body. They&#39;re as essential to perform as squats.
This will change as you get stronger. The DL will start taking more than it gives.

PowerManDL
05-03-2006, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by ShaliHead+May 3 2006, 07:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ShaliHead @ May 3 2006, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-strongchick@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
You&#39;re a woman: you won&#39;t get big slabs of muscle.

What you&#39;re doing will maintain the muscle you have and shed fat. You can&#39;t gain muscle eating sub maintenance.
Will I lose muscle being sub-maintenence? [/b][/quote]
Two words:

Cyclic dieting.

ShaliHead
05-04-2006, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL+May 3 2006, 06:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PowerManDL @ May 3 2006, 06:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by ShaliHead@May 3 2006, 07:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-strongchick@May 3 2006, 03:44 PM
You&#39;re a woman: you won&#39;t get big slabs of muscle.

What you&#39;re doing will maintain the muscle you have and shed fat. You can&#39;t gain muscle eating sub maintenance.
Will I lose muscle being sub-maintenence?
Two words:

Cyclic dieting. [/b][/quote]
How cyclic? And what exactly do you mean? Like carb cycling?

PowerManDL
05-04-2006, 12:48 AM
That&#39;s one way. There are others.

ShaliHead
05-04-2006, 12:56 AM
Okay, well I am on my own version of carb cycling. I will just stick with that. Thanks&#33;

smuggie
05-04-2006, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 3 2006, 07:46 PM
This will change as you get stronger. The DL will start taking more than it gives.
Let that bitch bring it on. :happy:

jaleena
05-04-2006, 02:52 AM
I dunno, my dl&#39;s seem to be a wash. They take away the callouses, and leave blisters in their wake&#33; :baby: :ban: :suicide:

smuggie
05-04-2006, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by jaleena@May 3 2006, 10:52 PM
I dunno, my dl&#39;s seem to be a wash. They take away the callouses, and leave blisters in their wake&#33; :baby: :ban: :suicide:
I&#39;m lucky. I barely have calluses.

Blondell
12-14-2006, 03:46 AM
bump