Carb Cycling vs. Low carbs w/ a Refeed

[sneezingstardust]

In your opinion, what is the better approach for carbs in the off-season, assuming you wanted to stay relatively lean. Do you think it's better to:

1) Have relatively low carbs during the week, with 1 weekly refeed.

or

2) Cycle carbs between low and medium days, with one or two higher days.


???

[Erik]

Refeeding when calories are NOT submaintenance (a requirement for offseason) is a waste of time. It doesn't do anything. And refeeding is not functioning as a 'carb up' for low carb eating. That's simply a side benefit.

Not to mention, low carbs and offseason is also counterproductive and carbs are an important part of 'undoing' contest dieting.

Fat gain isn't a carb issue. It's a calories issue.

Neither method is superior for staying leaner. Set calories appropriately. That's all that has to be done. Nothing complicated.

The above two scenarios imply that it's carbs that are the issue, and that's flawed. It a caloric intake vs expenditure issue.

[Erik]

So, to follow up, set your calories right relative to bodyweight and in the context of the goals of your offseason.

From there, outcome/results-based decision making rules the process. Going well? Stay the course. Not gaining? Up it. Gaining too much? Drop it.

Simple checks and balances system.

Nothing complicated needed.

[sneezingstardust]

Refeeding when calories are NOT submaintenance (a requirement for offseason) is a waste of time. It doesn't do anything. And refeeding is not functioning as a 'carb up' for low carb eating. That's simply a side benefit.

Not to mention, low carbs and offseason is also counterproductive and carbs are an important part of 'undoing' contest dieting.

Fat gain isn't a carb issue. It's a calories issue.

Neither method is superior for staying leaner. Set calories appropriately. That's all that has to be done. Nothing complicated.

The above two scenarios imply that it's carbs that are the issue, and that's flawed. It a caloric intake vs expenditure issue.

Hmm, true.

What do you think of calorie cycling?

[Erik]

Question needs context before an answer.

Calorie cycling for what?

[sneezingstardust]

Question needs context before an answer.

Calorie cycling for what?

Well, in general. I suppose as a means of keeping fat levels down in the off-season, but not staying at a set number of calories on a daily basis.

[missmarce]

Im going to assume that you are wanting to make improvements to your physique during this off season. While I do not compete, Ive been trying to look like I do since I was your age (Im 26 now). For so long I tried to gain muscle while staying 'relatively lean', as you are wanting to do. I ate very few carbs and essentially calorie cycled in hopes of not gaining too much fat. Let me just say from experience, it doesnt work. I was spinning my wheels for years, and all of my hard work in the gym didnt do much good because I wasnt willing to eat the way I needed to in order to support my goals.

It wasnt until I started working with Erik that I finally accepted that I was going to have to gain some fat if I wanted to put on some muscle. As he has told me all along, choose to enjoy the process. Use your off season to eat good food and more of it. Sure, you wont stay as lean as you are right now, but by no means do you have to get sloppy fat. If you can trust what you learn here and not be afraid to give up some control you can make great progress. You have SO much potential.

[sneezingstardust]

Im going to assume that you are wanting to make improvements to your physique during this off season. While I do not compete, Ive been trying to look like I do since I was your age (Im 26 now). For so long I tried to gain muscle while staying 'relatively lean', as you are wanting to do. I ate very few carbs and essentially calorie cycled in hopes of not gaining too much fat. Let me just say from experience, it doesnt work. I was spinning my wheels for years, and all of my hard work in the gym didnt do much good because I wasnt willing to eat the way I needed to in order to support my goals.

It wasnt until I started working with Erik that I finally accepted that I was going to have to gain some fat if I wanted to put on some muscle. As he has told me all along, choose to enjoy the process. Use your off season to eat good food and more of it. Sure, you wont stay as lean as you are right now, but by no means do you have to get sloppy fat. If you can trust what you learn here and not be afraid to give up some control you can make great progress. You have SO much potential.

Oh I know I'll have to gain some fat. I'd just like to stay leaner this time around as opposed to my last bulk.

[LoveToWorkout]

Refeeding when calories are NOT submaintenance (a requirement for offseason) is a waste of time. It doesn't do anything. And refeeding is not functioning as a 'carb up' for low carb eating. That's simply a side benefit.

Not to mention, low carbs and offseason is also counterproductive and carbs are an important part of 'undoing' contest dieting.

Fat gain isn't a carb issue. It's a calories issue.

Neither method is superior for staying leaner. Set calories appropriately. That's all that has to be done. Nothing complicated.

The above two scenarios imply that it's carbs that are the issue, and that's flawed. It a caloric intake vs expenditure issue.

Thank goodness... I didn't want to pick one or the other. :shakeithappy:

[fitforfat]

Christine, I think my diet proves carbs do not make you fat =P

I added 300 calories to my maintenance level until I noticed my weight gain had started to plateau. I then added a couple hundred calories more and eventually saw a change on the scale and in my physique. I've gained 15 lbs and I'm still willing to wear a bikini in public, though by no means am I walking around cut up.

You know you're not going to get fat in one day, it is a gradual process and you will be able to stop it in time if you feel you are bulking too fast. In my opinion, attempting to stay leaner than your previous bulk may hurt you when it comes to your goal of competing again, considering you expressed a desire to do another show in one year.

[sneezingstardust]

Christine, I think my diet proves carbs do not make you fat =P

I added 300 calories to my maintenance level until I noticed my weight gain had started to plateau. I then added a couple hundred calories more and eventually saw a change on the scale and in my physique. I've gained 15 lbs and I'm still willing to wear a bikini in public, though by no means am I walking around cut up.

You know you're not going to get fat in one day, it is a gradual process and you will be able to stop it in time if you feel you are bulking too fast. In my opinion, attempting to stay leaner than your previous bulk may hurt you when it comes to your goal of competing again, considering you expressed a desire to do another show in one year.

Lol, I know they don't necessarily.

I really wasn't that lean at all my last bulk, and I think I could have still gotten good gains without gaining the fat that I did. It's hard for you to tell since you haven't seen all my "before" pictures, but I was by no means "lean bulking", IMO. I had quite a bit of fluff on me. :bugeyes:

[fitforfat]

Lol, I know they don't necessarily.

I really wasn't that lean at all my last bulk, and I think I could have still gotten good gains without gaining the fat that I did. It's hard for you to tell since you haven't seen all my "before" pictures, but I was by no means "lean bulking", IMO. I had quite a bit of fluff on me. :bugeyes:

http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/blog/bulking-questions-and-answers-part-3/

This is my favorite bulking article of Erik's

I particularly like, "This is going to be determined by one, how much over maintenance you're eating and two, the aforementioned muscle-to-fat-gain ratio or how well your body partitions extra calories. For those with better partitioning ability, more of their new weight is going to be muscle and less is going to be fat, so they're probably going to have an easier time of it. For those less fortunate, it's going to be a different story. They're going to gain more bodyfat for a given weight gain."

So, if you are one of those less fortunate people (I'd assume most of us are), I would imagine attempting a "lean" bulk will just result in you achieving less muscle mass by the time you prep for a contest next year. Erik is the expert, of course, this is just my simpleton deduction =P Like you said, you only showed the bulking photos you chose to, but the ones I saw were far from excessive in terms of "fluff."

[Erik]

http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/blog/bulking-questions-and-answers-part-3/

This is my favorite bulking article of Erik's

I particularly like, "This is going to be determined by one, how much over maintenance you're eating and two, the aforementioned muscle-to-fat-gain ratio or how well your body partitions extra calories. For those with better partitioning ability, more of their new weight is going to be muscle and less is going to be fat, so they're probably going to have an easier time of it. For those less fortunate, it's going to be a different story. They're going to gain more bodyfat for a given weight gain."

So, if you are one of those less fortunate people (I'd assume most of us are), I would imagine attempting a "lean" bulk will just result in you achieving less muscle mass by the time you prep for a contest next year. Erik is the expert, of course, this is just my simpleton deduction =P Like you said, you only showed the bulking photos you chose to, but the ones I saw were far from excessive in terms of "fluff".

Thanks for reading that series. :)

[BigA]

Im going to assume that you are wanting to make improvements to your physique during this off season. While I do not compete, Ive been trying to look like I do since I was your age (Im 26 now). For so long I tried to gain muscle while staying 'relatively lean', as you are wanting to do. I ate very few carbs and essentially calorie cycled in hopes of not gaining too much fat. Let me just say from experience, it doesnt work. I was spinning my wheels for years, and all of my hard work in the gym didnt do much good because I wasnt willing to eat the way I needed to in order to support my goals.

It wasnt until I started working with Erik that I finally accepted that I was going to have to gain some fat if I wanted to put on some muscle. As he has told me all along, choose to enjoy the process. Use your off season to eat good food and more of it. Sure, you wont stay as lean as you are right now, but by no means do you have to get sloppy fat. If you can trust what you learn here and not be afraid to give up some control you can make great progress. You have SO much potential.



I agree with this one. I never made any gains until I ate enough.
:weights2:

[sneezingstardust]

Stupid fat gain. :grumble:


Oh well, more food for me. Yay.

[LoveToWorkout]

http://leanbodiesconsulting.com/blog/bulking-questions-and-answers-part-3/

This is my favorite bulking article of Erik's

I particularly like, "This is going to be determined by one, how much over maintenance you're eating and two, the aforementioned muscle-to-fat-gain ratio or how well your body partitions extra calories. For those with better partitioning ability, more of their new weight is going to be muscle and less is going to be fat, so they're probably going to have an easier time of it. For those less fortunate, it's going to be a different story. They're going to gain more bodyfat for a given weight gain."

So, if you are one of those less fortunate people (I'd assume most of us are), I would imagine attempting a "lean" bulk will just result in you achieving less muscle mass by the time you prep for a contest next year. Erik is the expert, of course, this is just my simpleton deduction =P Like you said, you only showed the bulking photos you chose to, but the ones I saw were far from excessive in terms of "fluff."

Thanks for posting this... Can't wait to read it. :popcorn:

[Anca]

I agree with this one. I never made any gains until I ate enough.
:weights2:

:ditto: for me too.

[fitforfat]

I pretty much ate in a deficit for over a year and averaged only 60 g of protein 0_0. I got 6 lbs of noob gains and stalled there.

In less than half a year (since increasing my calories and protein), I've gained over 10 lbs and still look pretty solid. Diet does wonders.

[Chicky9914]

I agree with this one. I never made any gains until I ate enough.
:weights2:

YEP YEP! I just accepted that if I want 1/2 lb of muscle, 1/2 lb of fat comes with it too, and that's being optimistic. Gotta take the good with the bad. I kept my offseason very clean this past year, put on 8-10 lbs and saw some definite improvements. Don't feel like you have to go and gain 20 lbs just to see improvements in your physique :)