increasing beyond maintenance

[strongchick]

I know it is generally recommended that a slower increase above maintenance is better for nutrient partioning/less fat gain. However, how much of a difference does this make? 10% every two weeks seems very slow. Right now I'm at maintenance and already feeling VERY full, but I need to up the cals to gain both muscle and fat for girly-health reasons (weight too low for conception currently).

I'm around 1400 cals. On a good day around 160 grams of protein, 120 grams of carbs, and 40 grams of fats. I weigh around 105 or so. I should probably increase the carbs (but they bloat me...suggestions) and keep the protein constant (?)

Suggestions? And at what rate would you recommend? As I said, fat gain isn't a huge issue since fat is estrogenic but there is the mental issue of gaining fat too quickly, and I would of course PREFER to gain muscle.

I'm doing Marion's Frenzy which is a full body routine, 4 days a week. Alternating days of 5x10, 6x4, 8x6, and 1x50. Its Hell on Earth. I do very limited SS cardio more for cardiovascular health and to try to stimulate my hunger. Its generally walking on a incline on the treadmill or very slow biking for 20 minutes.

[Erik]

I know it is generally recommended that a slower increase above maintenance is better for nutrient partioning/less fat gain. However, how much of a difference does this make? 10% every two weeks seems very slow. Right now I'm at maintenance and already feeling VERY full, but I need to up the cals to gain both muscle and fat for girly-health reasons (weight too low for conception currently).

It might seem slow, but if you're having trouble with your current intake, how are you going to be able to make bigger jumps? One of the benefits of slow, systematic increases is that it allows you to get used to just a little more food at a time.


I'm around 1400 cals. On a good day around 160 grams of protein, 120 grams of carbs, and 40 grams of fats. I weigh around 105 or so. I should probably increase the carbs (but they bloat me...suggestions) and keep the protein constant (?)

No need for more protein.

I thought your carb bloat issue was more related to carb selection? Increase from both carbs and fats.

[strongchick]

You're right, which is why I was trying to do a slower increase. It is just frustrating to want to get there but feel physically icky doing so. I know this isn't unusual for people trying to get above maintenance. Your body doesn't like to go above or below, I guess....

Bloating - it is a factor of carb choice, you're right. I rediscovered the effect oatbran has on me. Not good, especially in the evening when I have more meals left to go. I'm eating a lot more sweet potatoes this time.

I'm having difficulty increasing my carbohydrates without getting bloated and full. Other than oats, any suggestions? I'm vascilating between trying to keep it 'healthy' and filling up on empty carbs just to get them in....

What would you suggest the carbs and fats increase to be? I know my protein is good....

[Dane]

SC, I think I've read that you're working on fertility issues, as in TTC? It wouldn't hurt you to add a bit of fat, then, as you already mentioned. From what I understand, when women are trying to bulk (add muscle, with as limited a fat gain as possible), they usually add about 200 cals a week, and monitor the weight gain. When you get to where you're gaining more than say, a pound a week, you drop back slightly.
Originally posted by Thunder
It might seem slow, but if you're having trouble with your current intake, how are you going to be able to make bigger jumps? One of the benefits of slow, systematic increases is that it allows you to get used to just a little more food at a time. Yeah, this is a good point if you're having issues physically increasing your eats.

You want to hit your minimum protein (at least 1.25g/# estimated LBM), and minimum fat (usu. about 0.5g/#LBM is a good starting point), and then whatever combination of the rest suits your preferences, to hit your calorie total.

For carbs, in addition to your sweet po's, maybe try fruit, yogurt, rice (white or brown, doesn't matter), beans. Not familiar with your bloat issues, but the usual culprits are wheat, corn, soy, and dairy. Oats can carry traces of gluten, so if you're gluten-sensitive, these can screw you.

For you, fat will probably be the best bet to get your calories up. You need the fat to help make steroids and other goodies, and you don't need to avoid saturated. (You don't have to go nuts with it, but you don't have to avoid it either.) The usual--avocado, peanut butter, red meat, salmon, cheese, butter, olive oil, etc. (You should also be taking your fish oil.)

Another thing, about your lifting routine--I'd suggest looking into short and heavy sets, maybe in the 3-8 rep range, and ditch the higher rep work. You want to really hit your muscles, break 'em down so you can build 'em up. Endurance isn't your priority right now, am I right?

Hope this helps some. :)

[Erik]

Originally posted by strongchick@May 4 2006, 09:15 AM
You're right, which is why I was trying to do a slower increase. It is just frustrating to want to get there but feel physically icky doing so. I know this isn't unusual for people trying to get above maintenance. Your body doesn't like to go above or below, I guess....

Bloating - it is a factor of carb choice, you're right. I rediscovered the effect oatbran has on me. Not good, especially in the evening when I have more meals left to go. I'm eating a lot more sweet potatoes this time.

I'm having difficulty increasing my carbohydrates without getting bloated and full. Other than oats, any suggestions? I'm vascilating between trying to keep it 'healthy' and filling up on empty carbs just to get them in....

What would you suggest the carbs and fats increase to be? I know my protein is good....
I'd consider some low fiber carbs. Maybe throw in a bagel or two and keep it around your workout. Easy carbs.

[Beth66]

There is a bagel chain here (Einstein's bagels) that has a delicious Power Bagel. It has dried fruit and seeds and nuts baked right in. It is a calorie whopper. If I eat one (a treat reserved for after a long run), I eat it plain. However, they will put peanut butter on it for you.

Just think of the calories in one of those puppies!

[krispy1138]

Originally posted by Beth66@May 4 2006, 06:00 PM
There is a bagel chain here (Einstein's bagels) that has a delicious Power Bagel. It has dried fruit and seeds and nuts baked right in. It is a calorie whopper. If I eat one (a treat reserved for after a long run), I eat it plain. However, they will put peanut butter on it for you.

Just think of the calories in one of those puppies!
You got me curious, so:

Original Fruit & Nut

Serving Size: 1 bagel

Weight: 120g

Calories: 410

Calories From Fat: 50

% Calories From Fat: 12%

Total Fat: 5.0g

Saturated Fat: 0.5g

Trans Fat: 0.0g

Cholesterol: 0mg
Sodium: 310mg

Total Carbs: 81g

Dietary Fiber: 4g

Sugars: 18g

Protein: 13g

Vitamin A: 0%

Vitamin C: 0%

Calcium: 4%

Iron: 25%

Ingredients
Enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, malt barley flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), water, raisins, rye flakes, dried cranberries (sugar, cranberries, sunflower oil), sunflower seeds, honey, high fructose corn syrup, walnuts, yeast, wheat gluten, whole wheat flour, rye meal, salt, rye flour, cinnamon, sesame seed, oatmeal, corn meal, barley flakes, millet, molasses, malt, sugar, diacetyl tartaric acid esters of mono and diglycerides (DATEM), ascorbic acid, vegetable shortening (partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed, and/or canola oils), mono and diglycerides, lactic acid, acetic acid, enzyme, malt barley flour, L. Cysteine (an amino acid).

[strongchick]

Thank you all. :)


As for the diet, I did think of bagels (thank you, T). It is hard to get around the idea that I should concentrate more on fibrous foods...but then they don't seem to be helping me much now, LOL!

Thank you for your suggestions, Dane. The protein I have down. That's always been easy. You are right in that fat is an important part of the TTC bit, so I have been increasing my nuts as well. 0.5gram/lbm seems a bit high, but I have seen that kicked around to keep testosterone up. I should also consider adding some more oils, perhaps. I already do fish oil. I've been thinking about adding MCTs....

The bloating is due to fiber specifically. Too much soluble fiber. So I want foods that are lower in that type of fiber. I love oats, so before I was just ODing on those, but those are very high in that type of fiber. Insoluble fiber is fine. Yogurt is a good idea, as are beans/lentils...

I may end up modifying my workout: I have concerns about the volume....50 sets per exercise/4 exercises a workout. I'm afraid I'll burn out on it...as PDL mentioned, its a LOT of volume and to extend it for very long would kill me. Perhaps going back to the upper/lower split would be better.....??

The thread about combining PFC is actually helpful...I'm used to NOT doing that, and that is a hard mental block to over come....

That bagel sounds very filling....

[CraveMuscle]

do you know what kind of fat levels are supposed to increase testosterone?

mine are non-existant, so I'd do just about anything to remove that roadblock.

[strongchick]

Not sure...I know there was some study that recommended fat intake at the .5/lb lbm for that reason.

But I don't know if it was in men or women....