stronger back , weak legs, help?

[Tearose]

I have been doing full squats and I am not getting any stronger and in fact am finding it harder. I am squatting just the oly bar and I am struggling with that. I find that after 5 or 6 reps with just thebar my back starts to take over when I come up. I try to really concentrate on using my quads and I know I am supposed to feel it in my butt but never do. Which brings me to my back... I have massive lower back muscles. Those muscles that run along the sides of my spine are huge and there is the DEEP crevice there. My husband said the only other person he has seen with lower back muscles like that is a pit fighter :oops: :unsure: So I am not sure if my back muscles are trying to take over because they are stronger or what... and what I am supposed to do about this. I feel like a wimp and gave up after 2 sets of full squats and went and did leg extensions instead :shhh:

[smuggie]

Don't sub leg extensions for squats. Do lunges, Bulgarian squats or split squats instead.

Do you have long legs and a short torso? If so, the following article might give you some ideas on how to alleviate your problem:

Lousy Leverages, part I (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=739197)

Read part II while you're at it too:

Lousy Leverages, Part II (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=740326)

[janey]

Do you use the leg press?
I have trouble building strength in my legs as well, coupled with the fact that I am tall so squatting is difficult. I've been trying to build strength on the uni-lateral leg press and it is helping my squats...although it is a very slow process.

[PowerManDL]

Why are you doing more than 5 reps anyway, if you're trying to build strength?

Sounds like you're just fatiguing, which has nothing to do with your strength. Add weight to the bar and repeat as often as possible.

[KatieB]

Why are you doing more than 5 reps anyway, if you're trying to build strength?

Sounds like you're just fatiguing, which has nothing to do with your strength. Add weight to the bar and repeat as often as possible.


Agreed.

On the leg press thing -- that might not be a really good idea. The movement is NOT the same as a squat for a start, so even if your leg press numbers go up, your squat may not. That said, I've been single leg pressing as well, but more from a hypertrophy standpoint, so...

It's like, if you try to up your bench strength on a Hammer Strength benching machine, your numbers on the machine might go way up. But when you get back on a regular flat bench with a barbell, there may be NO difference.

[Jypsie]

The only advice I can offer is to really check your squat form. In order for your lower back muscles to be firing you would need to be extending from the waist. Granted, your erector spinae will be working to stabalize you, but they shouldn't be doing that much work. It sounds to me like you may be doing more of a bent over motion than a true squatting motion. Try doing some squats without using any weight at all, just to make sure your form is perfect.

[Tearose]

Smuggie, I do not have long legs and I am about 5' 5". Good idea on doing different squats I will do that.

Powerman, Dunno :unsure: Something I forgot to mention is that I think the bikeride to the gym is pre-exhausting my legs.

Janey, I havn't used the leg press in a long time but I was eyeing it today...

Katie, yeah I see what you mean


Thanks for the help :)
Jypsie, I think you may be right, I try to squat staright down but coming back up is more like sitting in reverse. I try to always keep looking straight ahead and keep my chest up, there is a mirrior in front of the rack so I can see what I am doing and I try to have proper form but something isn't right. I could ask for help on form from the ppl there but I am afraid I will get scolded for doing full squats. :oops:

[jaleena]

Tea, you may have answered your own question there, it might be the cycling.


In order for your lower back muscles to be firing you would need to be extending from the waist. Granted, your erector spinae will be working to stabalize you, but they shouldn't be doing that much work.

I disagree. Half of a squat is just not letting the weight knock you on your ass...every stabiliser muscle is worked pretty hard.


On the leg press thing -- that might not be a really good idea. The movement is NOT the same as a squat for a start, so even if your leg press numbers go up, your squat may not. That said, I've been single leg pressing as well, but more from a hypertrophy standpoint, so...

I sorta agree, but sorta don't...one lift won't go up in direct correlation with another, just like front squatting won't directly affect a back squat, or an incline press won't affect a flat press. But increased strength in affected muscles won't hurt a lift, ever...and a lot of times, if a lift isn't improving, there's more benefit to subbing in something else for a while, rather than hammering away at it with little/no effect.

[Tearose]

So until I get car my squats will suck? I will work on my form though and substitute for other squats.

[Strive2Define]

I personally think the only way to get good at something is to practice practice practice...if you want to be better at pushups then you have to do pushups..same for BB squats..IMO
So what if you can't do more than 5.I would rather someone only be able to do 3 with perfect form than 10 with mediocre form.From your description it almost sounds like you are hunching forward because I just don't see how it would be possible for your back to take the movement over unless you were getting too far forward in the bottom.If you continually substitute with other types of squats, you will never get any stronger on BB squats.

[Tearose]

should I ask the gym ppl to show me how to properly do it? Do I need to put weights under my heels?

[jaleena]

Tea, the plates under your heels thing is to help people get deep enough...that doesn't sound like your problem. And only ask somebody for help if you're sure they know what they're doing, because most trainers don't know squat about squatting.


I personally think the only way to get good at something is to practice practice practice...if you want to be better at pushups then you have to do pushups..same for BB squats..IMO
So what if you can't do more than 5.I would rather someone only be able to do 3 with perfect form than 10 with mediocre form.From your description it almost sounds like you are hunching forward because I just don't see how it would be possible for your back to take the movement over unless you were getting too far forward in the bottom.If you continually substitute with other types of squats, you will never get any stronger on BB squats.

I disagree. When one of my lifts stalls out, I don't do more of it, that's counterproductive...I've tried that before, and have gotten to watch my strength go down with every workout. Instead, I do something that I can make progress on, and then come back to the stalled lift after several weeks...much more effective than trying to beat my body into submission.

[Strive2Define]

Tea, the plates under your heels thing is to help people get deep enough...that doesn't sound like your problem. And only ask somebody for help if you're sure they know what they're doing, because most trainers don't know squat about squatting.



I disagree. When one of my lifts stalls out, I don't do more of it, that's counterproductive...I've tried that before, and have gotten to watch my strength go down with every workout. Instead, I do something that I can make progress on, and then come back to the stalled lift after several weeks...much more effective than trying to beat my body into submission.
No i didn't make myself clear..I am not telling her to go in and do squats every workout...that definately would be counterproductive plus her legs would never recover. My point was that by avoiding them and continually substituting with other types of squats isn't the answer either.

[Phoeff]

Why are your spinal erectors so developed? Do you have any spine problems like scoliosis? It's not one of those areas that I notice over developed on women. (Adela Friedmansky is one exception though I am sure there are others)

[Tearose]

I dunno, I don't think I have scoliosis....:unsure: what are the things that would make them that way?

[Aaron_F]

With larger spinal erectors I would expect the person to be brachiomorphic, relatively short limbs compared to their trunk.

This type of body structure can make it harder to remain upright in the squat, and fatigues the spinal erectors quite nicely.

[Aaron_F]

I disagree. When one of my lifts stalls out, I don't do more of it, that's counterproductive...I've tried that before, and have gotten to watch my strength go down with every workout. Instead, I do something that I can make progress on, and then come back to the stalled lift after several weeks...much more effective than trying to beat my body into submission.

two words

Sheiko

Smolov

:lol3:

[jaleena]

Two words: admitted sadists.

[Tearose]

:unsure: :oops: :( what does all that mean?

[jaleena]

http://www.ontariostrongman.ca/Resources/training/smolovsquatcycle.htm
http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/benchsheiko.htm

Smolov and Sheiko crash courses, respectively.

[Aaron_F]

or do you mean Brachiomophic?

[Tearose]

I don't think I have an overly short or long torso.... or arms.