Fat loss frustration.... please help

[tsunamii]

I need help.
Here are my stats:

25 y/o female, 5'8"
155 lbs (approx- I try not to weigh myself a lot)
latest measurements:

Abdomen 32.50in
Hips 37.50in
Thigh 24.25in
Knee 14.50in
Calf 14.50in
Neck 12.75in
Ankle 9.00in
Shoulders 42.50in
Arm 12.25in
Chest 36.50in
Forearm 10.00in
Waist 28.75in
Wrist 6.00in


*** So after a couple year layoff, I started training again and eating clean in April. Many of you might remember my "Stupid Stupid Trainer" thread- she had me working intensely 3 X per week doing a circuit-type strength training program w/intense cardio for 60 minutes, then I did cardio on top of that 2-3 times per week. She wanted me to eat next to nothing- oatmeal for breakfast and asparagus/meat for the other three meals (totalling 1300 calories on a good day). I stuck to this until June, and had gone from 30" waist to 27", and lost the same amount in my hips. She was disappointed in my because I hadn't lost any scale weight (then I was 150lbs). After all the bs she put me through, I quit with her.

Then at the end of June, I started Erik's 3x per week full body program and brought my calories up to maintenance (cycled between 1900 and 2300 during the week). I did cardio maybe 1 X per week. Then after 5 weeks I switched to a 4 day per week upper/lower, doing cardio anywhere from 0-3 x per week, eating around 1900-2000 cals per day.

I found that I had, by the middle of August, gained 4-5 lbs and weighed in at about 154-155. My measurements had gone up slightly from when I was training with the stupid trainer, but were about the same as I posted above.

Then in the beginning of September, I went on vacation for a week and a half and just let myself eat and drink as I pleased for once (which really wasn't that much in excess- but I didn't make myself feel bad about it). I came back from vacation and immediately started a 2 week PSMF.

At the end of my PSMF, after all that dedication to that grueling diet, I hadn't lost an effing thing. My measurements went down slightly (about .5 inch in my waist/hips), but went right back to about the same as soon as the water weight came back. During my PSMF I didn't train or do cardio- I took one cheat meal (reasonable) and one 5 hour refeed each week I did it.

So this past week (my first week after PSMF), after about a 4 week layoff of working out, I re-started a 4 day per week upper/lower split, planning on doing cardio 3 X per week. I'm trying to bring my calories back up to my metabolically depressed maintenance and keep them there for two weeks.

My question, after all that (and thanks to those who read this all the way through), is that I feel like my body just won't let go of fat, no matter what I do, unless I starve myself while doing insane amounts of cardio at the same time. This is what I've been taught is the wrong way to go about it, but it's been the only way that garners me any results.

I've been working hard and it's so discouraging not to see any results. Here are the pics I took before I started PSMF so you know what my body looks like. Any advice, comments or anything would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!!!!


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l106/sunshynegirl17/9-18-06-front.jpg

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l106/sunshynegirl17/9-18-06-back.jpg

[Espi]

Some people's bodies just adjust to lowered calories very rapidly.
This is a reason why I never wanted to go back to low-calorie eating again, until I discovered carb/calorie cycling. Basically I jack up calories to mainteance on the 3/4th day of a minicycle, and waaaaay above maintenance on the 6th/8th day of a minicycle. Even when I completely pig out on that 8th day, I'll still lose fat provided the low calorie days are low enough.

A lot of people have had great succes with carb cycling as well. The only grief i have against it, is that oftentimes women tend to never really take calorie intake to way above maintenance and it will be very modest like
1 g C/kg on low days
2 g C/kg on medium days
3 g C/kg on high days

whereas the high days could very well work better like 5-10 gC/kg , provided you only do this once every 6-8 days.

It's beyond me how others can lose steadily either with a tiny daily deficit or not lose their minds on a huge deficit for months on end. At least the high days will prevent insanity.

[Erik]

A lot of people have had great succes with carb cycling as well. The only grief i have against it, is that oftentimes women tend to never really take calorie intake to way above maintenance and it will be very modest like
1 g C/kg on low days
2 g C/kg on medium days
3 g C/kg on high days

whereas the high days could very well work better like 5-10 gC/kg , provided you only do this once every 6-8 days.

Because you don't tend to have to do that is probably reason #1. Beyond that, I agree that cycling carbs, and therefore calories is a very good approach to eating for fat loss.

[tsunamii]

Because you don't tend to have to do that is probably reason #1.

Can you clarify to what you are referring here? Thanks

[Erik]

Can you clarify to what you are referring here? Thanks

The last point in the post I quoted.

[Inspired]

Have you had your thyroid checked?
You want TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4, and you want these results to be optimal, not just "normal". Meaning a TSH of <1, and free T3 free T4 in the upper third of the range. The so-called "normal" range is too wide.
I also trained hard and ate clean for 6 months earlier this year, with very little progress. It was then I discovered my thyroid problem. :dry:

[tsunamii]

Have you had your thyroid checked?
You want TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4, and you want these results to be optimal, not just "normal". Meaning a TSH of <1, and free T3 free T4 in the upper third of the range. The so-called "normal" range is too wide.
I also trained hard and ate clean for 6 months earlier this year, with very little progress. It was then I discovered my thyroid problem. :dry:


I had it checked at my last physical in april -although the bloodwork was NOT done under fasting conditions.

I recall most of the thyroid stuff was on the lower end of "normal". What did your doctor do for you? Were you still within the "normal" range? I'm just concerned that my doctor will see that it's within the range and not help me.

[Inspired]

I had it checked at my last physical in april -although the bloodwork was NOT done under fasting conditions.

I recall most of the thyroid stuff was on the lower end of "normal". What did your doctor do for you? Were you still within the "normal" range? I'm just concerned that my doctor will see that it's within the range and not help me.

Yes, my labs were in the "normal" range, and I ordered them online myself at healthcheckusa.com b/c at the time I didn't have a regular doc. Thankfully, Ileen ( "Inatic") lives in my area and referred me to a good thyroid doc and I'm in the long process of finding out what meds and what dose works for me.
Ileen knows WAY more about this than me, I'm still learning.

Can you get your results and post them...along with the ranges?

[Inatic]

Can you get your results and post them...along with the ranges?

"normal" or "in range" is not optimal.

Please get a hard physical copy of your labs (you should always have them in your posession) and post or pm results if you'd like to persue that idea further.

There is an excellent thyroid primer thread in the health section.

[tsunamii]

Can you get your results and post them...along with the ranges?

I have them at home and can post tonight. I'm not sure if the test had the Free T3 and Free T4, but hopefully it will shed some light.

Thanks for suggesting this. I'm going to try to get in to see my doc and get retested and discuss w/her.

Just curious, what are you taking now for the thyroid?

[Inatic]

You want the Free's. Push and fight hard if you have to. The difference is that the T's(or totals) tells you that you have thyroid hormones in your body, but the FREE's tell you how your body is using them on a cellular level. The only one that counts.

[Inspired]

I have them at home and can post tonight. I'm not sure if the test had the Free T3 and Free T4, but hopefully it will shed some light.

Thanks for suggesting this. I'm going to try to get in to see my doc and get retested and discuss w/her.

Just curious, what are you taking now for the thyroid?

There's a variety of meds out there......I started on Levoxyl, a synthetic T4, but then after 6 weeks my doc switched me to Armour natural thyroid which has T4 and T3.....it's working so far in regards to energy level, etc....but weight loss? Well, I've just resumed training and dieting after a 3 month break :oops: , so no success there yet.

[tsunamii]

Inatic- Thanks, I will push for the free T3 and T4

Paige- thanks for sharing that w/me- very helpful. Please do update us on your progress now that you've started again.


I have a doctor appt tomorrow afternoon! It's something I've suspected for a while, and since I'm having such a hard time losing weight it makes sense.

Hopefully I'll find my answer.

Thanks again.

And if anyone else has thoughts, please share!

[funnyesq]

Have you had your thyroid checked?
You want TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4, and you want these results to be optimal, not just "normal". Meaning a TSH of <1, and free T3 free T4 in the upper third of the range. The so-called "normal" range is too wide.
I also trained hard and ate clean for 6 months earlier this year, with very little progress. It was then I discovered my thyroid problem. :dry:

It's all greek to me...

I have similar stats to the OP (other than age) i.e. I too am 5'8" and up until about 4 weeks ago was 154 (now...ugh 162).

I had blood done in March, 2006. T3,Free was 3.6 (pg/mL); TSH was 3.217 (uIU/mL); T4, Free was 1.2 (ng/dL). All say within normal ranges. What was really going on? I usually claim it takes me quite a bit of work to lose 1 lb a week. I have yet to lose more than say a pound a week. I do lose but I have to be strict with weighing every morsel that goes in and doing cardio and weights pretty intensely. I still think I lift heavy and work at very high intensity. I measure HR etc. It's up there (80-85% of max)

[Patricia]

For what it's worth, for years (maybe not straight or I'd be really scrwed up-or in better shape-who knows) I under ate and o'd on cardio.
I thought I HAD to eat under 1,400 cals and do 45-60 min of cardio 5-6 days a week to be lean. As soon as I ate 'normal' for a short duration I would plump waaay up. I took some time off from dieting altogether a few months ago-for a month. Not that I wanted to, just personal reasons (me and b/f getting back together...making up 4 lost time staying in and ordering pizza and downing bags of M&Ms :oops: ) Anyway, when I decided it was time to get back with it, I started to eat around 1,500 cals and only 4 days cardio (2 HIIt, 2 other)...It worked, slowly....then I slowly added more clean cals and now I am eating around 1,800 and slowly getting leaner (also depends on how bad I am on Sunday).
Anyway, the point is I think if you just have patience you will see results with more food.

[tsunamii]

For what it's worth, for years (maybe not straight or I'd be really scrwed up-or in better shape-who knows) I under ate and o'd on cardio.
I thought I HAD to eat under 1,400 cals and do 45-60 min of cardio 5-6 days a week to be lean. As soon as I ate 'normal' for a short duration I would plump waaay up. I took some time off from dieting altogether a few months ago-for a month. Not that I wanted to, just personal reasons (me and b/f getting back together...making up 4 lost time staying in and ordering pizza and downing bags of M&Ms :oops: ) Anyway, when I decided it was time to get back with it, I started to eat around 1,500 cals and only 4 days cardio (2 HIIt, 2 other)...It worked, slowly....then I slowly added more clean cals and now I am eating around 1,800 and slowly getting leaner (also depends on how bad I am on Sunday).
Anyway, the point is I think if you just have patience you will see results with more food.


It had been 5 months of pretty consistent work, 3 of which were in a good healthy calorie range and I didn't see much improvement at all. Is that normal? I mean, I'm 25. And I've lost weight before....

[Patricia]

Hmm. Maybe your cals need to be averaging slightly lower until your bf goes down, then as you get leaner slowly bring them back up. That is what I did.
I am no expert though, just know what worked for me. I also added 15-20min of SS cardio after each weight session.....So I also increased activity while increasing my cals. I am now eating more cals than I ever have before- I am losing bf on about 1,800 per day (with BAD eating on some Sundays--see the 'I'm the Biggest Binge Eater' thread... )...I weigh about 115-117 and am 5'0''

[tsunamii]

Hmm. Maybe your cals need to be averaging slightly lower until your bf goes down, then as you get leaner slowly bring them back up. That is what I did.
I am no expert though, just know what worked for me. I also added 15-20min of SS cardio after each weight session.....So I also increased activity while increasing my cals. I am now eating more cals than I ever have before- I am losing bf on about 1,800 per day (with BAD eating on some Sundays--see the 'I'm the Biggest Binge Eater' thread... )...I weigh about 115-117 and am 5'0''


Thanks for the input... :shades:

The one thing I really don't get is why I didn't BUDGE on PSMF. WTF???

[JJ29]

Some people's bodies (mine for example) are just more stubborn at losing fat than others. I think the fact that you were able to lose some good inches/weight indicates that you probably don't have a thyroid problem.

[char-dawg]

Can someone tell me what PSMF stands for? I can't remember for the life of me.



How about stress levels? I've seen cases where everything was good diet/training-wise and yet because of a shitty work situation the person didn't make progress. Once the work factor was gone, results appeared like magic.

Also, you know everyone has a set-point and often it just takes time for a body to re-set itself. Some people have it easier than others, but with perserverance physics will eventually win out. Main thing is: don't get depressed with yourself, because that will only further impede your progress.

[strongchick]

Protein sparing modified fast

[Inatic]

had blood done in March, 2006. T3,Free was 3.6 (pg/mL); TSH was 3.217 (uIU/mL); T4, Free was 1.2 (ng/dL). All say within normal ranges. What was really going on?

WHen you post your thyoid (or any levels) please also list the lab values often found in (such as TSH for ex. 3.217 (.3-5.5)

Thanks :)

[tsunamii]

Have you had your thyroid checked?
You want TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4, and you want these results to be optimal, not just "normal". Meaning a TSH of <1, and free T3 free T4 in the upper third of the range. The so-called "normal" range is too wide.
I also trained hard and ate clean for 6 months earlier this year, with very little progress. It was then I discovered my thyroid problem. :dry:



Ok Paige and Inatic- here are my thyroid panel results from April:

FREE T4: 0.61 (range .87 - 1.56) below normal
T4 TOTAL: 8.8 (range 4.5 -12.0)
T3 UPTAKE: 24.7 (range 24.3 - 39.0) very low end of normal
FREE THYROXINE INDEX: 2.1 (range 1.2 - 4.9)
TSH (ULTRA SENSITIVE): 3.71 (range 0.35 - 5.5)


Can you help me interpret this?

Thanks!

[tsunamii]

Can someone tell me what PSMF stands for? I can't remember for the life of me.



How about stress levels? I've seen cases where everything was good diet/training-wise and yet because of a shitty work situation the person didn't make progress. Once the work factor was gone, results appeared like magic.

Also, you know everyone has a set-point and often it just takes time for a body to re-set itself. Some people have it easier than others, but with perserverance physics will eventually win out. Main thing is: don't get depressed with yourself, because that will only further impede your progress.


Thanks, Char for the advice. Yeah, I'm trying to battle the not getting down on myself. I am depressed and on meds for it, but stuff like this or work stress can really get to me (I don't have a shitty work situation per se, but there is some stress there).

[Inspired]

Can someone tell me what PSMF stands for? I can't remember for the life of me.



How about stress levels? I've seen cases where everything was good diet/training-wise and yet because of a shitty work situation the person didn't make progress. Once the work factor was gone, results appeared like magic.

Also, you know everyone has a set-point and often it just takes time for a body to re-set itself. Some people have it easier than others, but with perserverance physics will eventually win out. Main thing is: don't get depressed with yourself, because that will only further impede your progress.

This is SO true!

And I wasn't trying to imply that you do indeed have a thyroid problem. Just saying it's worth checking out. Thyroid issues are often overlooked.

[Inatic]

Ok Paige and Inatic- here are my thyroid panel results from April:

FREE T4: 0.61 (range .87 - 1.56) below normal
T4 TOTAL: 8.8 (range 4.5 -12.0)
T3 UPTAKE: 24.7 (range 24.3 - 39.0) very low end of normal
FREE THYROXINE INDEX: 2.1 (range 1.2 - 4.9)
TSH (ULTRA SENSITIVE): 3.71 (range 0.35 - 5.5)


Can you help me interpret this?

Thanks!

Yes. You need to find someone to treat your thyroid. It is low.

I'd suggest you get a free T3 which is likely to show even lower than the total.

If you go to the thyroid thread, there is alist for ea state and sources to help you find a dr. Also know that many anti d's affect the thyroid as well. Editting to add, that low T3 is also a cause of depression. Once the levels are brought up, most patients do not require the anti D's.

I went for yrs undiagnosed Hypo T as well.

Please read this thread. It is loaded with tons of information you may find very helpful on your quest to get treatment.
http://70.103.16.157/~extremf4/forums/showthread.php?t=3873

[tsunamii]

This is SO true!

And I wasn't trying to imply that you do indeed have a thyroid problem. Just saying it's worth checking out. Thyroid issues are often overlooked.


Oh, yes I know. It's something I've kind of suspected for a while, especially since my last round of bloodwork, and I just want to be sure I can rule it out.

[tsunamii]

Yes. You need to find someone to treat your thyroid. It is low.

I'd suggest you get a free T3 which is likely to show even lower than the total.

If you go to the thyroid thread, there is alist for ea state and sources to help you find a dr. Also know that many anti d's affect the thyroid as well.

Please read this thread. It is loaded with tons of information you may find very helpful on your quest to get treatment.
http://70.103.16.157/~extremf4/forums/showthread.php?t=3873


Thank you so much for your input. I'll go to my GP tomorrow, and will also seek a referral for a second opinion if she's no help.

I was doing a bit of research, and I came across a bit of info that was interesting: if the Free T4 is low, but the TSH is normal, it may be the pituitary gland that isn't working properly. This is interesting.... I'll have to research more so I can be armed for my appt tomorrow...

[Inspired]

Ok Paige and Inatic- here are my thyroid panel results from April:

FREE T4: 0.61 (range .87 - 1.56) below normal
T4 TOTAL: 8.8 (range 4.5 -12.0)
T3 UPTAKE: 24.7 (range 24.3 - 39.0) very low end of normal
FREE THYROXINE INDEX: 2.1 (range 1.2 - 4.9)
TSH (ULTRA SENSITIVE): 3.71 (range 0.35 - 5.5)


Can you help me interpret this?

Thanks!





OK. Those results are not normal.
Free T4 is way low
TSH is high...should be below 1

I'm not sure what the others mean....if free thyroxine index is the same thing as free T3, then that is low too, needs to be higher.

Your thyroid is not producing enough T4...that's why your FT4 is low. And because of that, your pituitary is pumping out the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), making it high.

I'm sure Ileen can shed some more light on this, but IMO, you do have an imbalance that could use some correction.


Edit: Ileen, you beat me to it! :lol:

[tsunamii]

OK. Those results are not normal.
Free T4 is way low
TSH is high...should be below 1

I'm not sure what the others mean....if free thyroxine index is the same thing as free T3, then that is low too, needs to be higher.

Your thyroid is not producing enough T4...that's why your FT4 is low. And because of that, your pituitary is pumping out the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), making it high.

I'm sure Ileen can shed some more light on this, but IMO, you do have an imbalance that could use some correction.


Edit: Ileen, you beat me to it! :lol:



Thanks, Paige! :lol:

[VannaRae]

Yes, you still need to see FT3 as well, but from the labs you've had thus far, you appear to be hypothyroid. Ask for reverse T3 as well. When talking about Rx ask for Armour or a combo of T4 & T3.

Sorry tsunamii, but it is best to stop dieting right now as well. You need to eat at maintenance while titrating your thyroid dose.

[char-dawg]

Protein sparing modified fast
Thank you.

Now I'll be able to sleep tonight. :)

[funnyesq]

WHen you post your thyoid (or any levels) please also list the lab values often found in (such as TSH for ex. 3.217 (.3-5.5)

Thanks :)


TSH = 3.217 range = 0.350--5.500
T3, Free = 3.6 range = 2.3-4.2
T4, Free = 1.2 range = 0.8-1.7

[tsunamii]

Yes, you still need to see FT3 as well, but from the labs you've had thus far, you appear to be hypothyroid. Ask for reverse T3 as well. When talking about Rx ask for Armour or a combo of T4 & T3.

Sorry tsunamii, but it is best to stop dieting right now as well. You need to eat at maintenance while titrating your thyroid dose.

Thanks, Vanna. Yes, unfortunately I know I have to stop dieting. I'm so so disappointed right now, as I really want to compete sometime soon.

I'm really hoping my GP will take this seriously and that I won't have to go through burning hoops to get this taken care of.

I really appreciate everyone's input and advice!

[Inspired]

TSH = 3.217 range = 0.350--5.500
T3, Free = 3.6 range = 2.3-4.2
T4, Free = 1.2 range = 0.8-1.7


Your TSH is high, FT3 looks pretty good, FT4 is low.

Check out the link Ileen posted previously---great info in there. :)

[funnyesq]

Your TSH is high, FT3 looks pretty good, FT4 is low.

Check out the link Ileen posted previously---great info in there. :)

I did....still difficult for me to assess against my stats. If my T4, Free is a bit low (it's a bit low, not very low I guess) that seems to cause the TSH to go up which may explain why it's a bit high (at least according to that thread if one is to accept the narrower ranges). Would this make me slightly hypo-Thyroid? Would it explain, perhaps, why although I can lose weight it seems to take great effort and at best 1 lb a week (I still haven't been able to get to 2 lbs a week although I think my exercise intensity is up there an often enough...80-85% of max HR, for 30 minutes 4-5 times a week + 2 intense 50 minute weight trainings a week + 2 more moderate-intense other weight training session of about 30 minutes.

[funnyesq]

I'm also menopausal. I take supplements galore and may be taking too many.

The interesting thing about the thread you posted a link to, is the foods that are anti-thyroid...most are quite "healthy" and clean and thus it seems we need to eat more "bad" stuff to promote thyroid health. Leafy greens are anti-thyoid? Strawberries? It's amazing....I really begin to wonder how we all survive....the air is bad, the water is bad, food is bad. Let's just crawl in a hole.

[Inspired]

I did....still difficult for me to assess against my stats. If my T4, Free is a bit low (it's a bit low, not very low I guess) that seems to cause the TSH to go up which may explain why it's a bit high (at least according to that thread if one is to accept the narrower ranges). Would this make me slightly hypo-Thyroid?
Yes, it's possible to have low-grade Hypothyroidism. Also, the labs don't tell the whole story....

Would it explain, perhaps, why although I can lose weight it seems to take great effort and at best 1 lb a week (I still haven't been able to get to 2 lbs a week although I think my exercise intensity is up there an often enough...80-85% of max HR, for 30 minutes 4-5 times a week + 2 intense 50 minute weight trainings a week + 2 more moderate-intense other weight training session of about 30 minutes.
I think 1 pound a week is great! But I know how it is to want more...:oops:
30 mins of cardio 4-5x a week....I'm assuming that's steady state? If it is, you could change that up....maybe HIIT 2x/week and 1 or 2 SS sessions/week.

If you'd like more specific advice on your weight training, I'd suggest starting a new thread (since we kinda high-jacked this one) and post up your routine in detail for others to critique. There's so many people here to help! :)

[tsunamii]

I think 1 pound a week is great! But I know how it is to want more...:oops:


I would be so happy to lose 1lb a week. I'd be at my goal already!


(there's no reason for this, but I fricken love this smiley :catfight: )

[funnyesq]

On top of all this I have multiple uterine fibroids which makes my uterus the size of a 15 week pregnancy! Talk about weight loss. I estimate there must be about 2-3 lbs right there alone!

[tsunamii]

So I had my appointment this afternoon. I took in my labs from April and the doc looked at the TOTAL T3 and T4 and said "you're within range". I pointed out the the Free T4 was WAYYYY low and the TSH was high. I had to explain to her the new reference range adopted by the AACE in 2003. She pretty much blew me off and said she didn't feel comfortable prescribing thyroid meds at these levels.


Then she took a second look at my chart and noticed that I had gained weight. She said this concerned her and agreed to get my bloodwork done. In the mean time, she referred me to an endo, and I'm going to make an appt next week after I get my bloodwork results back.

So now I wait....

[Inatic]

go to the thread suggested below and try to find someone wtih some good positive recommendation. Many endos are great at treating diabetes but not so much with thryoid.

Good luck! :)

[WriterlyGirl]

So I had my appointment this afternoon. I took in my labs from April and the doc looked at the TOTAL T3 and T4 and said "you're within range". I pointed out the the Free T4 was WAYYYY low and the TSH was high. I had to explain to her the new reference range adopted by the AACE in 2003. She pretty much blew me off and said she didn't feel comfortable prescribing thyroid meds at these levels.
Typical.

They always look for reasons to deny you something when there are some disturbing numbers right in front of them.

[tsunamii]

go to the thread suggested below and try to find someone wtih some good positive recommendation. Many endos are great at treating diabetes but not so much with thryoid.

Good luck! :)


That was my feeling, that I need to find an endo that specializes in thyroid. Seems like the diagnosis and treatment of anything having to do with the thyroid is from the dinosaur era. I'll keep you updated when I get the new lab results back and make an appt with the endo.

Thanks again for all your help and support!

[tsunamii]

Typical.

They always look for reasons to deny you something when there are some disturbing numbers right in front of them.


What's more disturbing is that she didn't know how to analyse the numbers in front of her to come to the conclusion that they were indeed not normal.


I don't trust GP's for anything outside of the fricken flu. Med schools need to seriously overhaul their curricula!

[funnyesq]

go to the thread suggested below and try to find someone wtih some good positive recommendation. Many endos are great at treating diabetes but not so much with thryoid.

Good luck! :)

What thread below? I only see your journal. Nice pics. Impressive

[Strive2Define]

What thread below? I only see your journal. Nice pics. Impressive
The link is further back in the beginning of this thread..

[WriterlyGirl]

What's more disturbing is that she didn't know how to analyse the numbers in front of her to come to the conclusion that they were indeed not normal.


I don't trust GP's for anything outside of the fricken flu. Med schools need to seriously overhaul their curricula!
Maybe she mail ordered her degree.

[Inspired]

Maybe she mail ordered her degree.

:lol:

[KatieB]

Thanks for the input... :shades:

The one thing I really don't get is why I didn't BUDGE on PSMF. WTF???


I have to say I don't get it either... Unless you weren't actually following the diet right OR there is some other kind of metabolic problem, I see no way anyone could NOT lose on a PSMF... The calories are just too low, there's no way an otherwise healthy person's metabolism could downshift to the point that they wouldn't lose...

I would be worried too, assuming the diet was followed correctly (is it possible that you did it in the wrong bf% category or something?)...

(Edit: read the rest of the thread. Bitch slap that doctor and make sure that you get what you need!)

[Aurora]

I am not trying to justify the doctors actions here because I realise that this is an important issure to you and others. But you have to take into consideration the wide scope of practise GP's are expected to cover, the lack of resources availible, and the structure of the healthcare system itself that they are working under. Being a GP in these times is NOT what it used to be and the strain on the healthcare system of high demand increased population and complex needs leaves a lot of them struggling to get through their patient load. I am glad you have gotten a referral to an endocineologist but be aware even they may not treat numbers of a suboptimal range unless they are putting your health at direct risk. There are some articles on www.Scottabel.com about endocrine therapy and some resource material availble too. I have a girlfriend taking thise therapy right now and she is quite pleased with the results.

[Inspired]

I agree with Aurora, but wanted to add this:

From "The Thyroid Solution" by Ridha Arem, M.D.:


"In general, primary care physicians have not been adequately trained to detect and manage thyroid disease and may lack the expertise needed to diagnose and treat a wide range of thyroid disorders. They also receive little teaching on the effects of thyroid disease on mental health or on understanding the interplay between the mind and the thyroid.

The majority of practitioners of internal medicine and family medicine complete their residency without having had a rotation (or semester) in endocrinology. Many physicians leave their training programs with inadequate experience in diagnosing and treating these disorders. Physicians who do receive training in endocrinology realize that thyroid conditions are more widespread than most people think and are also some of the more complex problems in medicine."




Due to the lack of training, it leaves most GP's to rely solely on the labs, which has an outdated, too wide "normal" range, leaving many cases undiagnosed and untreated, sadly making the patient feel as if their problems are all in their head.

One person can have, say, a TSH of 3.0, within normal range, and that actually be normal for them. Another person can have a TSH of 3.0, and that NOT be normal for them. (though TSH should not be the only test...just using that for an example)

One needs to take into cosideration all their symptoms, not just numbers on a piece of paper, and treat accordingly, on an individual basis.
It makes finding a doc frustrating, to say the least.

[lilbear]

.

I was doing a bit of research, and I came across a bit of info that was interesting: if the Free T4 is low, but the TSH is normal, it may be the pituitary gland that isn't working properly. This is interesting.... I'll have to research more so I can be armed for my appt tomorrow...[/QUOTE]



In a situation where the pituitary gland isn't working right it's much more likely that tsh will be below "normal" because tsh is made in the pituitary. The lack of tsh (thyroid stimulating hormone) is what causes this form of hypothyroidism. I'm lucky enough to have this problem. I'm happy you're getting some progress made on your thyroid situation, thank goodness for the internet! If you're having trouble finding a doctor there are several top thyroid doctor websites out there and it is also possible to self treat as a last resort. I would be more surprised to read that your doctor looked at your test results and knew how to interpret them correctly. The thing about these ranges is they are taken from sick people so they are quite flawed. Good luck to you and please let me know if I can help at all.

[krispy1138]

To the OP: I want to offer my support and say I hope the endo helps you with your thyroid problems. I tried to lose weight for 4 years and even eating at what should have been a huge deficit, I consistently gained. I had my thyroid levels tested, but my GP did not feel I had a thyroid problem. She referred me to an endo, who agreed with the GP but agreed to run additional labs. Fortunately, when the labs came back, she agreed to start me on a low dose of Synthroid. That was almost a month ago, and I'm between the meds and the training/nutrition program I'm doing, I've lost 6 lbs and 10 inches.

As others have said, make sure you always get your own copy of all labs, do your research and don't be afraid to argue with the doctors or get second, third or fourth opinions if you have to.

Good luck!

[tsunamii]

So I got my numbers back from my bloodwork on Friday. I was kind of irritated because they didn't run the Free T4 or Free T3 like I had asked. I called them back and asked them to have the lab run both and they said they'd have the results by Thursday.

Here they are:
T4 Total: 8.5 (4.5- 12.0)
T3 Uptake: 26.5 (24.3 - 39.0)
Free Thyroxine Index: 2.2 (1.2-4.9)
TSH: 2.42 (.35 - 5.5)


In the mean time, I've made an appointment with a doctor off of the Top Doc list on one of the thyroid info links and she seems very caring and open-minded. So we'll see!

[tsunamii]

To the OP: I want to offer my support and say I hope the endo helps you with your thyroid problems. I tried to lose weight for 4 years and even eating at what should have been a huge deficit, I consistently gained. I had my thyroid levels tested, but my GP did not feel I had a thyroid problem. She referred me to an endo, who agreed with the GP but agreed to run additional labs. Fortunately, when the labs came back, she agreed to start me on a low dose of Synthroid. That was almost a month ago, and I'm between the meds and the training/nutrition program I'm doing, I've lost 6 lbs and 10 inches.

As others have said, make sure you always get your own copy of all labs, do your research and don't be afraid to argue with the doctors or get second, third or fourth opinions if you have to.

Good luck!


Thanks Krispy, and congratulations on finally getting what you need and losing weight! That must feel awesome after years of not understanding why you weren't making progress.

We'll see how the appt with the endo goes next Wednesday!