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mark
05-09-2006, 04:33 PM
Higher reps/lower weight, or heavy weight/lower reps? Or both? High volume or no?


I always hear people saying that you have to do a lot of reps on calves. But my theory has been that since type II fibers are the ones that grow more readily, that you need to train calves heavy to maximize them.

quickie
05-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Train them like any other muscle- all rep ranges.

Add a four second stretch at the bottom to offset the achilles (sp) ability to benefit from momentum. This will force your calves to work harder.

EDIT: I hope I said the second part correct. :oops:

CraveMuscle
05-09-2006, 07:11 PM
wouldn't it depend on which calf muscle you're talking about / which exercise?

gastrocnemius = primarily fast twitch
soleus = primarily slow twitch

p-funk
05-09-2006, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by quickie@May 9 2006, 11:39 AM
Train them like any other muscle- all rep ranges.

Add a four second stretch at the bottom to offset the achilles (sp) ability to benefit from momentum. This will force your calves to work harder.

EDIT: I hope I said the second part correct. :oops:
yea, the pause at the bottom prevents the tendon from returining the elastic energy (stretch relflex).

strongchick
05-09-2006, 08:59 PM
Mark, your avatar rocks.

Erik
05-09-2006, 09:44 PM
I think calves are the most 'genetic' bodypart out there. You either have them or you don't. Take someone like Sportsgirl - obvious genetic predisposition towards nutso calves. No amount of training is going to give a person with poor calves, development like she has.

However, not to say you can't improve them, but they're damn stubborn.

As Quick said, start using extended pauses in the stretch to eliminate the elastic energy; you'll force the calves to do more work. The stretch, I think, should be at least 3 seconds.

I'd think you'd obviously want to work across all rep ranges, but I'd consider upping the training frequency if it was a bodypart you were hell bent on improving.

PowerManDL
05-10-2006, 12:24 AM
I wreck mine twice a week.

Usually one day super-heavy on the leg press, and another day on either seated or standing calf machine for higher reps.

Both days are a lot higher volume than I'd use for other parts. Partly for the Achilles tendon reason.

Chelsinator
05-10-2006, 01:52 AM
I don't even train my calves...

:innocent:

Just kidding

PnW
05-10-2006, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Chelsinator@May 10 2006, 01:52 PM
I don't even train my calves...

:innocent:

Just kidding
Wow... NICE chels!

mark
05-10-2006, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by strongchick@May 9 2006, 01:59 PM
Mark, your avatar rocks.
Thanks SC. :)

Bravogrl27
05-10-2006, 04:48 AM
Is this in reference to Christamarie's 20 rep calves? I was curious as well because my hubby always made me do high rep calves; thanks for posting.

http://www.oxygenmag.net/showthread.php?t=21367

mark
05-10-2006, 04:51 AM
Thanks guys... all excellent advice. I've been using a basic slow eccentric, but no pause at the bottom. I'll start trying that. I've been doing a 5x6 heavyt and a 3x10 light set rep scheme each week. Should I up the volume higher?

Erik
05-10-2006, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by mark@May 10 2006, 12:51 AM
Thanks guys... all excellent advice. I've been using a basic slow eccentric, but no pause at the bottom. I'll start trying that. I've been doing a 5x6 heavyt and a 3x10 light set rep scheme each week. Should I up the volume higher?
Is it working?

Wait, you're dieting aren't you?

PowerManDL
05-10-2006, 04:54 AM
I'm not convinced it's the high reps that are as necessary as the higher volume.

Even with pauses, the calves just seem to need a greater overload....probably due to the short lever arm involved in plantarflexion. That whole joint is just a cauldron of mechanically advantageous creamery goodness.

I'm at a point where I train them with 5-6+ heavy sets of 5 on the leg press, then do 2-4 3-set waves of 15-20 reps on a standing or seated raise on a second day. Big emphasis on the eccentric and especially the pause on both days.

It's helping them grow some, but it's a slow process. And they're still small.

Erik
05-10-2006, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 10 2006, 12:54 AM
That whole joint is just a cauldron of mechanically advantageous creamery goodness.

LMAO

That was just awesome. :lol:

Chelsinator
05-10-2006, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 9 2006, 10:55 PM
That was just awesome. :lol:
:dry: These are MY words.

Erik
05-10-2006, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by PowerManDL@May 10 2006, 12:54 AM
And they're still small.
site injections

Dane
05-10-2006, 07:04 AM
If I recall correctly, Lyle McD recommends training calves as such:

For the gastroc. (primarily fast twitch), doing short, heavy sets of standing calf work, like 5x5, and definitely pausing for a few seconds at the top and bottom (especially) of the movement.

For the soleus (primarily slow twitch), doing longer, lighter (though still heavy) sets of seated calf work, like 3x8-10.

Sportsgirl
05-10-2006, 11:12 AM
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm gonna go get MASSIVE. :lol:

Erik
05-10-2006, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Dane@May 10 2006, 03:04 AM
If I recall correctly, Lyle McD recommends training calves as such:

For the gastroc. (primarily fast twitch), doing short, heavy sets of standing calf work, like 5x5, and definitely pausing for a few seconds at the top and bottom (especially) of the movement.

For the soleus (primarily slow twitch), doing longer, lighter (though still heavy) sets of seated calf work, like 3x8-10.
That's nothing new.

Strive2Define
05-10-2006, 02:09 PM
I tend to agree that calves are very genetic. I rarely do any direct work on my calves and I think they are one of the most defined parts of my body

Erik
05-10-2006, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Strive2Define@May 10 2006, 10:09 AM
I tend to agree that calves are very genetic. I rarely do any direct work on my calves and I think they are one of the most defined parts of my body
Yep, those are nice looking calves.

Robben
05-10-2006, 02:32 PM
When it comes to calf training I train my calves by doing seated calf raises, standing calf raises and by using a leg press or vertical press... What I have found works best for me when doing seated calfs is that I work with a weight that I can get a full range of motion on. I do a 4 count hold on both the top of the movement and the bottom of the movement.. During this same exercise on the seated calf raise I will also do fast moving full range of motion reps... I normally will do 4 sets of 20 - 25 reps on the seated calf machine...

When I do standing calf raises (4sets - 20-25 reps) I start out with a heavy weight but, yet still at a weight that I can get a full range of motion out of.. Again, I hold and pause for the count of 4... Many times I also will use a leg press machine or the vertical press to work the calves one at a time... Another trick you can use is to do calf raises with toes pointed out, toes pointed in, toes straight.

I also think that when it comes to training calves most people will take the easy way out and not train them as they should. Lets face it, training the calves as they should be trained is a bitch in and of itself because of the depth a person has to go to get the burn on. And to get the burn on, a person has gotta pound the shit of them each and every week.. And pounding the shit out of them is not about pounding them with heavy weight where there is little to no range of motion during the movement...

mark
05-10-2006, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 9 2006, 09:52 PM
Is it working?

Wait, you're dieting aren't you?
I'm not so sure it's working well. I'm seeing a little difference, but they're just stubborn. I haven't been dieting recently. They know me by name at Papa Murphy's at this point, but I just finally got my menu worked out to do some carb cycling and started that yesterday.

mark
05-10-2006, 02:54 PM
Here's a shot of my pathetic calves...

mark
05-10-2006, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Robben@May 10 2006, 07:32 AM
Another trick you can use is to do calf raises with toes pointed out, toes pointed in, toes straight.


I had read somewhere that this makes no difference at all in training calves. I used to do that until I read that.

Robben
05-10-2006, 03:35 PM
Mark, I think what happens to so many is when they think of training the calves they only think of training the Gastrocnemisus - the main body of the calf. People forget that the Soleus and the Peroneus Longus - that come down along the outer side of the leg also help make the lower part of the leg look dead sexy... With this being said, I would use pretty much every method known to me to train the calves, even if this includes doing calf raises with toes pointed out, toes pointed in, toes straight.. :compute:

CraveMuscle
05-10-2006, 03:53 PM
some gyms have a plate-loaded machine for training soleus.

3LP
05-10-2006, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Strive2Define@May 10 2006, 09:09 AM
I tend to agree that calves are very genetic. I rarely do any direct work on my calves and I think they are one of the most defined parts of my body
I totally agree they are mostly genetic. My calves are one of my better body parts and I never do any direct calf work. They've always been one of my good points even when I didn't lift at all.

My husband has the most awesome calves -- big and veiny, lol, and he never works them aside from sports (ultimate frisbee and mountain biking). My 6 year old seems to have inherited them from both of us -- people are always commenting on what big calf muscles she has for a skinny little kid!

amyloo
05-10-2006, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by mark@May 10 2006, 09:54 AM
Here's a shot of my pathetic calves...
Mark, I think they are looking great for a work in progress! You've got that nice butterfly split in the middle. I've seen only a few guys with that kind of definition, one of whom was a crazy marathoner.

Erik
05-10-2006, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by CraveMuscle@May 10 2006, 11:53 AM
some gyms have a plate-loaded machine for training soleus.
Knees bent = soleus

CraveMuscle
05-10-2006, 04:52 PM
I know that, but I didn't think that everyone would know that there was a difference between the standing calf machine and the bent kneed one (if that's even a word?). :)

BronzedGoddess
05-10-2006, 05:09 PM
I have terribly crappy calves. The only thing that's ever worked for me was doing a circuit of seated calve raises, standing calve raises then jump roping (sp?) for 2 minutes. I'd repeat that 3 times. The calve raises were in the 15 - 20 range. It didn't give me big calves but they were much improved after about 3 months. Then I got lazy...

sweetpea_123
05-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Staring at my calves. wondering if my calves lo :confused: ok strong and ripped up! :confused: :confused: :confused:

Leah
05-10-2006, 09:00 PM
I have sucky calves too...and I carry a lot of fat on them for some reason :unsure:

I hate my calves

Eegor
05-10-2006, 09:12 PM
i have no calves :sad:

janey
05-10-2006, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Eegor@May 10 2006, 04:12 PM
i have no calves :sad:
Ditto. :(

Strive2Define
05-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Leah@May 10 2006, 05:00 PM
I have sucky calves too...and I carry a lot of fat on them for some reason :unsure:

I hate my calves
I would give up my calves to have the rest of your body. :)

mark
05-11-2006, 02:51 PM
In yesterday's workout, I did a 6x6 and used an explosive concentric, a slow eccentric of about 3 seconds with a 3 second stretch at the bottom. I'm feelin' it today.

sweetpea_123
05-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Leah+May 10 2006, 04:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Leah @ May 10 2006, 04:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I have sucky calves too...and I carry a lot of fat on them for some reason :unsure:

I hate my calves [/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Leah@May 10 2006, 04:00 PM
I have sucky calves too...and I carry a lot of fat on them for some reason :unsure:

I hate my calves[/quote]
Um, Leah, I have seen photos of you. . . quite frankly, you look freakin&#39; awesome&#33;&#33;&#33; Your calves do not look fat, you look lean and fabulous. You go girl&#33;&#33;


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