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dare
05-12-2006, 07:56 PM
First off, I know that there really isn't such thing as "upper" & "lower" abs, as it is just one long muscle (or at least that's what I've read). But, for explanation sake, I'm going to use "upper" & "lower" descriptions anyway.

Question: would it be okay to split "upper" & "lower" abs (ie. different exercises - focusing on either 'section') on different days, just as one would do a weight training split? So say you were to work each 'section' 2x/week....just wondering if this would lead to overtraining & have no benefit?

Reason being I would like to do this, is b/c I H.A.T.E. working abs, and find it easier to do them if I have only a couple of different exercises to focus on, rather than trying to do "upper, lower, & obliques" all at the same time. Does this make sense? :uuhh:

Pinky
05-12-2006, 07:58 PM
I was under the impression there is really no need for ab work. Or at least doign endless crunches.... You will inadvertently work your abs when you do your weights. I do weighted abs, once or twice a week. I do not split them up into upper or lower.

Plus, abs are made in the kitchen!!

Erik
05-12-2006, 07:59 PM
No, I don't agree with that, because 'lower ab' movements involve the upper abs, etc. You can't eliminate activity at the other 'end'.

It would be better to split up abdominal training based on function. So for example,

Flexion
Hip Flexion
Trunk rotation
Lateral flexion
Stabilization

JLS
05-12-2006, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Pinky@May 12 2006, 02:58 PM

Plus, abs are made in the kitchen!!
:lol: Hee Hee...I knew that was coming!

dare
05-12-2006, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Pinky@May 12 2006, 01:58 PM
I was under the impression there is really no need for ab work. Or at least doign endless crunches.... You will inadvertently work your abs when you do your weights. I do weighted abs, once or twice a week. I do not split them up into upper or lower.

Plus, abs are made in the kitchen!!
Um, ya, I know abs are made in the kitchen. :rolleyes: I'm not doing ab work to 'get a six-pack', just for core strength & tightening b/c I want to strengthen my ab muscles before I get pregnant.

dare
05-12-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 12 2006, 01:59 PM
No, I don't agree with that, because 'lower ab' movements involve the upper abs, etc. You can't eliminate activity at the other 'end'.

It would be better to split up abdominal training based on function. So for example,

Flexion
Hip Flexion
Trunk rotation
Lateral flexion
Stabilization
Thank you Erik.

Pinky
05-12-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 12 2006, 01:59 PM
No, I don't agree with that, because 'lower ab' movements involve the upper abs, etc. You can't eliminate activity at the other 'end'.

It would be better to split up abdominal training based on function. So for example,

Flexion
Hip Flexion
Trunk rotation
Lateral flexion
Stabilization
What part are you not agreeing with? Was it my post? Or the original? Just wanted to confirm.

Also, what do you feel are the best exercises for these various functions? I am a little shocked, didn't realize that abs were so complex.

Pinky
05-12-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by JLS+May 12 2006, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JLS @ May 12 2006, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pinky@May 12 2006, 02:58 PM

Plus, abs are made in the kitchen&#33;&#33;
:lol: Hee Hee...I knew that was coming&#33; [/b][/quote]
I try to throw this out there as much as I can, but for my own sake. This is something I really need to get through my head&#33; So I am hoping the more times I say/read it, I will actually get the idea once and for all&#33; Ok, I guess I "get" the idea, just have to APPLY it better then I have been.... :uuhh:

smuggie
05-12-2006, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Pinky@May 12 2006, 04:05 PM
Also, what do you feel are the best exercises for these various functions? I am a little shocked, didn&#39;t realize that abs were so complex.
Here are some of my faves:

Flexion: pulldown abs, combat crunches, serratus crunches
Hip flexion: lying pikes
Rotation: med ball Russian twists, landmines, rainbows
Lateral flexion: sidebends, Saxon sidebends, cable sidebends, reverse cable sidebends
Stabilization/compression: prone bridges, vacuums, lateral bridges, dead bugs

Pinky
05-12-2006, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 12 2006, 05:15 PM
Here are some of my faves:

Flexion: pulldown abs, combat crunches, serratus crunches
Hip flexion: lying pikes
Rotation: med ball Russian twists, landmines, rainbows
Lateral flexion: sidebends, Saxon sidebends, cable sidebends, reverse cable sidebends
Stabilization/compression: prone bridges, vacuums, lateral bridges, dead bugs
I feel like a moron, I have never heard of any of these&#33; :o I hope these are listed in the, "How Do I Do That Exercisde" stickie...

CLPgold
05-12-2006, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 12 2006, 07:59 PM
No, I don&#39;t agree with that, because &#39;lower ab&#39; movements involve the upper abs, etc. You can&#39;t eliminate activity at the other &#39;end&#39;.

It would be better to split up abdominal training based on function. So for example,

Flexion
Hip Flexion
Trunk rotation
Lateral flexion
Stabilization
Very good point. There is no &#39;upper and lower&#39; abs when referring to the rectus abdominus that we&#39;re all focused on. But there are other muscles within that vincinity. And abs are made in the kitchen too.

IMHO abs and calves are much the same. They need both exhaustive high rep, low weight exercise and low rep high weight exercise. Tricky muscle groups to train based on the nature of their function and placement. Calves and abs withstand most of our weightbearing or activity bases activities. But it&#39;s very passive basesd on their function and nature that it takes a lot to really work them.

CLPgold
05-12-2006, 11:40 PM
My spelling really sucked in that last post.

To put it bluntly, abs and calves are worked every day - more than most other muscle groups. Our whole weight is loaded on our calves everyday. And our abs are constantly needed to do most of our activities throughout the day. Therefore they&#39;re worked constantly in different ways. They need a lot of &#39;shock&#39; to make changes. That&#39;s for the common people. There are those genetically blessed with either abs or calves that respond well, or one or the other.

CLPgold
05-12-2006, 11:42 PM
And many people tend to carry bodyfat in the ab region. You may have a stellar 6pack, but if you&#39;re not helping them &#39;in the kitchen&#39; you&#39;re not going to see them.

Pinky
05-12-2006, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by CLPgold@May 12 2006, 05:40 PM
My spelling really sucked in that last post.

To put it bluntly, abs and calves are worked every day - more than most other muscle groups. Our whole weight is loaded on our calves everyday. And our abs are constantly needed to do most of our activities throughout the day. Therefore they&#39;re worked constantly in different ways. They need a lot of &#39;shock&#39; to make changes. That&#39;s for the common people. There are those genetically blessed with either abs or calves that respond well, or one or the other.
So what would you recommend doing to work these muscle groups? For calf raises, I used to do, say, 10 reps of heavy weight, then pump out 25 quickly with no weight, and keep alternating this. Is this what you are talking about? Or did I totally misunderstand your post?

CLPgold
05-12-2006, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Pinky+May 12 2006, 11:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pinky @ May 12 2006, 11:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-CLPgold@May 12 2006, 05:40 PM
My spelling really sucked in that last post.

To put it bluntly, abs and calves are worked every day - more than most other muscle groups. Our whole weight is loaded on our calves everyday. And our abs are constantly needed to do most of our activities throughout the day. Therefore they&#39;re worked constantly in different ways. They need a lot of &#39;shock&#39; to make changes. That&#39;s for the common people. There are those genetically blessed with either abs or calves that respond well, or one or the other.
So what would you recommend doing to work these muscle groups? For calf raises, I used to do, say, 10 reps of heavy weight, then pump out 25 quickly with no weight, and keep alternating this. Is this what you are talking about? Or did I totally misunderstand your post? [/b][/quote]
No misunderstanding. That&#39;s a great way to work them. There&#39;s so many alternatives too. Running and sprinting are fabulous for calves. A set like you just mentioned works great, drop sets, pyramids. Almost anything goes for calves.

The best I ever heard was from a not so calf blessed bodybuilder. He told me that 4 months before a show, he would do 100reps on EACH of his stairs of his staircase each day. Sometimes twice. Yes he would puke, he hated it, but it worked. And he also did the heavier weighted calf exercises.

Abs definitely are not as hard to develop. They&#39;re just harder to see because of our bodyfat distribution.

Q45
05-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Thunder@May 12 2006, 02:59 PM
No, I don&#39;t agree with that, because &#39;lower ab&#39; movements involve the upper abs, etc. You can&#39;t eliminate activity at the other &#39;end&#39;.

It would be better to split up abdominal training based on function. So for example,

Flexion
Hip Flexion
Trunk rotation
Lateral flexion
Stabilization
LATELY, IV BEEN GETTING KNOTS AND CRAMPS IN MY ABS AFTER
I WORK THEM FOR A COUPLE SETS. ITS PAINFUL STUFF. WHAT CAN I DO TO
PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING. ??

smuggie
05-13-2006, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Pinky@May 12 2006, 07:35 PM
I feel like a moron, I have never heard of any of these&#33; :O I hope these are listed in the, "How Do I Do That Exercisde" stickie...
There are no ab exercises in the "How Do I..." sticky at all.

I&#39;ll compile a guide.

Erin
05-13-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 13 2006, 01:33 AM
There are no ab exercises in the "How Do I..." sticky at all.

I&#39;ll compile a guide.
Yeah&#33; :clap: Cuz I was trying to look some of these up last night and couldn&#39;t find them all.

PowerManDL
05-13-2006, 11:39 AM
I&#39;m such a slacker when it comes to ab training.

My main two exercises are "squats" and "deadlifts"

Pinky
05-13-2006, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by CLPgold+May 12 2006, 05:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CLPgold @ May 12 2006, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Pinky@May 12 2006, 11:51 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-CLPgold@May 12 2006, 05:40 PM
My spelling really sucked in that last post.*

To put it bluntly, abs and calves are worked every day - more than most other muscle groups.* Our whole weight is loaded on our calves everyday.* And our abs are constantly needed to do most of our activities throughout the day.* Therefore they&#39;re worked constantly in different ways.* They need a lot of &#39;shock&#39; to make changes.* That&#39;s for the common people.* There are those genetically blessed with either abs or calves that respond well, or one or the other.
So what would you recommend doing to work these muscle groups? For calf raises, I used to do, say, 10 reps of heavy weight, then pump out 25 quickly with no weight, and keep alternating this. Is this what you are talking about? Or did I totally misunderstand your post?
No misunderstanding. That&#39;s a great way to work them. There&#39;s so many alternatives too. Running and sprinting are fabulous for calves. A set like you just mentioned works great, drop sets, pyramids. Almost anything goes for calves.

The best I ever heard was from a not so calf blessed bodybuilder. He told me that 4 months before a show, he would do 100reps on EACH of his stairs of his staircase each day. Sometimes twice. Yes he would puke, he hated it, but it worked. And he also did the heavier weighted calf exercises.

Abs definitely are not as hard to develop. They&#39;re just harder to see because of our bodyfat distribution. [/b][/quote]
Ok, that does not sound pleasant at all&#33; Good thing I have large calves, so I don&#39;t have to worry &#39;bout that too much.

Tina
05-13-2006, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by dare@May 12 2006, 04:02 PM
Um, ya, I know abs are made in the kitchen. :rolleyes: I&#39;m not doing ab work to &#39;get a six-pack&#39;, just for core strength & tightening b/c I want to strengthen my ab muscles before I get pregnant.
Me too :hi:

Thanks Smuggie

homeschoolmom
05-13-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by smuggie@May 12 2006, 09:33 PM
There are no ab exercises in the "How Do I..." sticky at all.

I&#39;ll compile a guide.
Thanks Smuggie&#33; That would be awesome&#33; :) I can&#39;t wait to see the Dead Bug. With a name like that, it should be fun&#33; :lol:

threepeasnc
05-13-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by homeschoolmom+May 13 2006, 10:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (homeschoolmom @ May 13 2006, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-smuggie@May 12 2006, 09:33 PM
There are no ab exercises in the "How Do I..."* sticky at all.

I&#39;ll compile a guide.
Thanks Smuggie&#33; That would be awesome&#33; :) I can&#39;t wait to see the Dead Bug. With a name like that, it should be fun&#33; :lol: [/b][/quote]
My thoughts exactly&#33;

smuggie
05-13-2006, 04:38 PM
Girls, check my post in the "How Do I..." sticky for my mini guide to ab training.

hemi
05-13-2006, 05:35 PM
Damn, that&#39;s quite an ab routine. Thank you Smuggie. I&#39;m going to try a lying pike and serratus crunch in tomorrow&#39;s workout :lol:...emphasis on the word try. LOL

smuggie
05-13-2006, 06:29 PM
hemi, I don&#39;t do all of those exercises every time I work abs. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/montagnu/ellis/confused2.gif