Paps & HPV

[fit'n'healthy]

Ok, I thought I knew about HPV. I was always told that the way to check for it is to have pap tests. And that most people have HPV, but if you have a strain that is high risk, you would see it as warts or cervical changes that would be detected in a pap.

Well, my best friend told me yesterday that her doc told her she has high risk hpv. But, she had a pap done a couple of weeks ago at the same time, and it came back normal. So the doc called her to come in and get a biopsy and colposcopy (sp?) done and said she could see some changes on her cervix. HOW is that possible if she just had a pap and nothing looked out of whack and it came back normal??

Anyway, this has got me all freaked out, I"ve always had normal paps, but called my doc and planned parenthood to see if they would do the specific hpv test, and both said they only do it if you have an abnormal pap. Otherwise, it could show up positive, but the virus could go away on its own before it does anything to your body, and you would be undergoing a bunch of unnecessary tests and worry. Is that right? Can I not get a test if I specifically ask for it??

[KatieB]

There is no reason I can think of for a colposcopy or a biopsy if a Pap comes back normal.

There must have been some other reason the doctor chose to do them.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you get an abnormal result back.

And for the record, I had a couple of abnormal Paps and a colpo and a biopsy and they still never told me definitively if I even *have* HPV. Blech.

It's not something you want to go through without good reason - not fun at all.

[fit'n'healthy]

There is no reason I can think of for a colposcopy or a biopsy if a Pap comes back normal.

There must have been some other reason the doctor chose to do them.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you get an abnormal result back.

And for the record, I had a couple of abnormal Paps and a colpo and a biopsy and they still never told me definitively if I even *have* HPV. Blech.

It's not something you want to go through without good reason - not fun at all.

i know, its crappy. why woulnd' they tell you?

[KatieB]

i know, its crappy. why woulnd' they tell you?


The medical establishment in general sticks to the "no news is good news" mantra, which couldn't possibly be more annoying.

I didn't even know the results of my biopsy until I needed my med records to transfer to a new doctor.

But they WOULD tell you if something was wrong that you needed to worry about. However, you are entitled to see your records and have them explained to you if you choose.

[liberty]

A Pap is just a sample, they could have visually seen some changes that need removing. My gf had a hysterectomy two months ago cause they kept cutting pieces of her cervix and they kept coming back. They finally came back as cancer so it was all taken out. She was never diagnosed with HPV but doc says she must have had it in her 20's. Paps are still the best way to stay safe. My dtr. will have the vaccine at 11 years old!
C

[KatieB]

As will mine - I am considering getting it myself before I reach the cutoff age.

[Ali]

A Pap is just a sample, they could have visually seen some changes that need removing. My gf had a hysterectomy two months ago cause they kept cutting pieces of her cervix and they kept coming back. They finally came back as cancer so it was all taken out. She was never diagnosed with HPV but doc says she must have had it in her 20's. Paps are still the best way to stay safe. My dtr. will have the vaccine at 11 years old!
C


Thank god for this. Hopefully they will decide to give it to boys, too...which seems really dumb not to.

[fit'n'healthy]

A Pap is just a sample, they could have visually seen some changes that need removing. My gf had a hysterectomy two months ago cause they kept cutting pieces of her cervix and they kept coming back. They finally came back as cancer so it was all taken out. She was never diagnosed with HPV but doc says she must have had it in her 20's. Paps are still the best way to stay safe. My dtr. will have the vaccine at 11 years old!
C


did she have abnormal paps at first to cause the cutting?

[fit'n'healthy]

A Pap is just a sample, they could have visually seen some changes that need removing. My gf had a hysterectomy two months ago cause they kept cutting pieces of her cervix and they kept coming back. They finally came back as cancer so it was all taken out. She was never diagnosed with HPV but doc says she must have had it in her 20's. Paps are still the best way to stay safe. My dtr. will have the vaccine at 11 years old!
C

right, but she had a pap and pelvic exam and then 2 weeks later they said her pap was normal, she had hpv, and then they took a biopsy. you would think they would have seeen the changes during the first exam.

[RaideretteAli]

I do think doctors try not to worry patients too much, it is not healthy to constantly be worried about something that may amount to nothing - making a mountain out of a molehill. As long as you are vigilant with your paps (every year) then they should be able to detect any abnormal changes in your cervix from year to year. I have had an abnormal pap, a biopsy and a LEEP procedure due to precancerous cells on my cervix. My doctor was fantastic, explaining to me all the steps of the process and answering all my questions. It is scary to hear the "C" word for me, many people in my family have died from cancer. I now have to go back for paps every three months to ensure that everything is fine and there's nothing to worry about. And even with all that I had to go through, it was important to stay calm and not overreact to the news. My doctor was very calming and made sure I knew that it wasn't anything serious YET, and to be positive. Like a previous poster said, MANY people have HPV. It is very common, but the way each person's body reacts to it is very individual. You may have it, but your body may be able to ward it off before it does anything to you! So if you have nothing to worry about, knowing you have HPV may cause more worry than is necessary. I am so glad to see that there is a vaccine coming out, I would love for my daughter to have it as soon as possible. They've made great strides against this sort of cancer.

-Ali-

[KatieB]

Thank god for this. Hopefully they will decide to give it to boys, too...which seems really dumb not to.

I believe they are in the testing stages for males - it makes sense I guess that they worried about girls/women first since we are the ones who can die bc of it - but vaccinating men too would prevent tons of transmissions.

[Ali]

I believe they are in the testing stages for males - it makes sense I guess that they worried about girls/women first since we are the ones who can die bc of it - but vaccinating men too would prevent tons of transmissions.

I read that men that carry HPV can be more prone to some cancers, too...and for transmission, it certainly makes sense to vaccinate everyone. I think the vaccine is only for certain types of HPV, though...so still it will be prevalent...probably more the low risk types. :yucky:

[KatieB]

I read that men that carry HPV can be more prone to some cancers, too...and for transmission, it certainly makes sense to vaccinate everyone. I think the vaccine is only for certain types of HPV, though...so still it will be prevalent...probably more the low risk types. :yucky:

Yes, that's true. I think the problem is they don't know if it works on men yet, hopefully it will.

This vaccine protects against 4 strains, which may not sound like a lot (I believe it is 6, 11, 16 and 18) but two of them (16 & 18 I thik) are the primary ones that cause cervical cancer. The lower risk types, while annoying, aren't going to kill anyone, so at least there's that.

It could be that they haven't isolated the strains that cause the male cancers... not sure.

[Patricia]

As will mine - I am considering getting it myself before I reach the cutoff age.

However, isn't it best to get the vaccine BEFORE you become sexually active?
That's what I've read.

[fit'n'healthy]

However, isn't it best to get the vaccine BEFORE you become sexually active?
That's what I've read.

Yes, because if you already have a strain of it, it won't cure it. But it would protect you from the other 3...

I'm nervouse about getting anything 'new' done. this vaccine is very new, makes me nervous if there are going to be any long term issues w/ it.

[Patricia]

Yes, because if you already have a strain of it, it won't cure it. But it would protect you from the other 3...

I'm nervouse about getting anything 'new' done. this vaccine is very new, makes me nervous if there are going to be any long term issues w/ it.

I'd say there is really no reason to fear this vaccine. Would you fear any of the other vaccines we were given when we were school children?

Anywhoos, there's a page over at Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hpv_vaccine - it also contains a lot of linkie goodness.

Edited to add:

Two more links -
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8831

and

http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/cervicalcancer/a/hpvcervcancercn.htm

[fit'n'healthy]

I'd say there is really no reason to fear this vaccine. Would you fear any of the other vaccines we were given when we were school children?

Anywhoos, there's a page over at Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hpv_vaccine - it also contains a lot of linkie goodness.


actually, yes, google vaccines and read all the studies done. here is one: http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html

vaccines have been known to increase the chances of autism, and even as adults, if you get the flu shot 5 or more years in a row, it increases your chances of alzheimer's by 10 times. http://www.doctorbob.com/vd--flu-shot-season.html

i'm not saying everyone should stop getting vaccines, but people should educate themselves about them and not just go along with what schools and doctor's recommend.

[theresak]

actually, yes, google vaccines and read all the studies done. here is one: http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html

vaccines have been known to increase the chances of autism, and even as adults, if you get the flu shot 5 or more years in a row, it increases your chances of alzheimer's by 10 times. http://www.doctorbob.com/vd--flu-shot-season.html

i'm not saying everyone should stop getting vaccines, but people should educate themselves about them and not just go along with what schools and doctor's recommend.
The autism link has been overhyped, and discredited. Apparently the study was extremely small, not large and multiple like more established studies. Personally, I wish it were true if it could prevent new cases.

[fit'n'healthy]

The autism link has been overhyped, and discredited. Apparently the study was extremely small, not large and multiple like more established studies. Personally, I wish it were true if it could prevent new cases.

ok, i hadn't heard that, but there are still links to sids, and other things if you read the first link i posted. for one of the shots, you have 100x more of a chance to die from the vaccine than the illness its supposed to prevent. Crazy, huh?

[Patricia]

In researching HPV/vaccine, I found another site. It's a blogspot site, "Moderately Insane" and well, this one about the HPV vaccine is entertaining and good.

http://moderatelyinsane.blogspot.com/2006/05/hpv-insanity.html

[Patricia]

Crazy, huh?


Yes. :huh:

[homeschoolmom]

My 11 YR DD will NOT be getting the HPV vaccination. My pediatrician said that there are no long term studies yet and that they are not even sure for how long the vaccine is effective as of yet. Boosters may have to be given down the line. Until long term studies have been done, I won't feel comfortable with her receiving it. She's only 11 now and we have the luxury of time at this point. I'm hoping that with time, more studies will be done and that we'll have a better idea of long term effectiveness.

[KatieB]

However, isn't it best to get the vaccine BEFORE you become sexually active?
That's what I've read.

Yes, but if you have no been infected with the strains it prevents, you can still be protected. Worth it imo.

[KatieB]

My 11 YR DD will NOT be getting the HPV vaccination. My pediatrician said that there are no long term studies yet and that they are not even sure for how long the vaccine is effective as of yet. Boosters may have to be given down the line. Until long term studies have been done, I won't feel comfortable with her receiving it. She's only 11 now and we have the luxury of time at this point. I'm hoping that with time, more studies will be done and that we'll have a better idea of long term effectiveness.


That's totally understandable, but depending on your personal definition of "long term" it may be too late by then...

I am definitely in favor if being wary when it comes to pumping drugs into our bodies though.

[theresak]

ok, i hadn't heard that, but there are still links to sids, and other things if you read the first link i posted. for one of the shots, you have 100x more of a chance to die from the vaccine than the illness its supposed to prevent. Crazy, huh?
I don't know about the SIDS link, coincidence of timing could be a major factor. My niece died of SIDS at four months, the day after her checkup in fact. Her autopsy turned up nothing, but did they look for an adverse reaction to shots?? I don't know, and I'm not going to ask my sister after all this time. SIDS is such a mystery affliction.
I am no expert in immunization by far, but I feel comforted when I believe I'm doing all I can to protect my kids. I do know that the dangerous additive in the polio vaccine was removed years ago, though my first son received the original combo. That's why it's no longer administered orally (at least not 'round these parts.)

I agree when you play with the numbers and the shot looks to be 100X more dangerous than the disease, it looks nuts. However if your child were to become afflicted with the disease and the vaccine lessens the effects it would certainly be worth it in my eyes. The article's own research reports that the pertussis breakout in 93 was mild, perhaps because of the vaccines?

Like I said, I'm no expert - and I agree that education is better than blind compliance.

[theresak]

I am definitely in favor if being wary when it comes to pumping drugs into our bodies though.
I agree with this too.

This vaccine is very very new, but in our current society the female population is more likely than not to have multiple partners. Shoot, when I was in sixth grade (I'm 32 now) several of my friends had already had sex before the end of the school year. Now, it must be even more prevalent. So they would have to give it before the age of 12, IMO. Sadly. I don't see how they can make it mandatory without somebody paying for it. My kids got their immunizations free from the health department, the same should go for this if it's to be mandatory.

[tstroud]

I just recently found out I had HPV and had to have the leep. My first pap will not be until the end of March and I am freaking out. My fiance and I are getting married this september and want to start having kids right away. You start thinking of your past and all those things you did that are not worth it. I don't know what we will do if my pap comes back bad again. I can't imagine marrying him knowing that I can't give him all that he needs in life. Bottom line is I would give anything to not have this.

[KatieB]

I just recently found out I had HPV and had to have the leep. My first pap will not be until the end of March and I am freaking out. My fiance and I are getting married this september and want to start having kids right away. You start thinking of your past and all those things you did that are not worth it. I don't know what we will do if my pap comes back bad again. I can't imagine marrying him knowing that I can't give him all that he needs in life. Bottom line is I would give anything to not have this.


Even if you have HPV, it usually clears itself from your system within a few years, and only a couple of individual strains can cause cervical cancer. The odds that it will negatively impact your life or your fertility are reassuringly low.

Good luck.

[fit'n'healthy]

I don't know about the SIDS link, coincidence of timing could be a major factor. My niece died of SIDS at four months, the day after her checkup in fact. Her autopsy turned up nothing, but did they look for an adverse reaction to shots?? I don't know, and I'm not going to ask my sister after all this time. SIDS is such a mystery affliction.
I am no expert in immunization by far, but I feel comforted when I believe I'm doing all I can to protect my kids. I do know that the dangerous additive in the polio vaccine was removed years ago, though my first son received the original combo. That's why it's no longer administered orally (at least not 'round these parts.)

I agree when you play with the numbers and the shot looks to be 100X more dangerous than the disease, it looks nuts. However if your child were to become afflicted with the disease and the vaccine lessens the effects it would certainly be worth it in my eyes. The article's own research reports that the pertussis breakout in 93 was mild, perhaps because of the vaccines?

Like I said, I'm no expert - and I agree that education is better than blind compliance.

I'm not an expert, either, but it is interesting to read both sides. And I'm not saying that its bad or wrong to vaccinate your children - I'm sure I will, too. I didn't mean to infer that you weren't doing everything to protect your kids. But it is good to be educated on all sides. I'm sorry about your niece. SIDS is a mystery.

[fit'n'healthy]

I just recently found out I had HPV and had to have the leep. My first pap will not be until the end of March and I am freaking out. My fiance and I are getting married this september and want to start having kids right away. You start thinking of your past and all those things you did that are not worth it. I don't know what we will do if my pap comes back bad again. I can't imagine marrying him knowing that I can't give him all that he needs in life. Bottom line is I would give anything to not have this.


I'm so sorry to hear this, but like Katie said, the chances it will affect your fertility or lead to cancer are very slim. And I don't think something like this should be making you question your impending marraige. There are a lot of other options out there when it comes to having kids - if you didn't have any of this happen, and you started trying to have kids, there is no guarantee that it would happen then, either. I want kids more than anything, and if I would have found out my husband couldnt have kids before we got married, I still would have married him 100%. We would have just figured out some other avenue for having kids. That's JMO...

good luck, and keep your chin up.

[fitnesschick]

i had an abnormal pap a few years back indicative of HPV and it was pretty worrisome but my body cleared it up on it's own and i can go back to pap smears every 2 years - thank goodness :)

i researched the vaccine issue, both sides, long and hard for years and made the personal decision not to vaccinate my kids and i'm completely comfortable with my decision. it's a personal choice, do the research and make your own decision that you can live with.

anyone read stephanie's cave book? she is an MD who works with vaccine damaged kids ... anyway, she pointed out how one vaccine (i believe it was hep B) was tested for TWO DAYS only and they used those 2 days as there "research" into the effects of the vaccine.

it is an interesting issue and certainly not black and white in my mind.

[fit'n'healthy]

So I"ve been doing a lot of internet research on this subject, now that it is hitting closer to home. My friend actually agreed to get a second opinion, so we'll see what the outcome is this time.

Anyway, in dealing with all of this and reading all i've read today, i realized its almost time for my annual so i scheduled it for the end of this month. I've read about a lot of people that ended up getting cervical cancer w/o having any abnormal paps. That freaks me out! If someone specifically wanted an hpv test, will the dr do it? I would rather know, and have my paps done more frequently if I do have it, than not know and find out too late. All of a sudden, I'm really worried about it, and wondering if my super long cycles are caused by some bigger problems??

[accismus]

I had abnormal cervical cells, had cryo back in May, and now everything is normal. I've been going in for paps every three months, and I'll have to continue for another year. The doc never said that I have HPV. She said lots of things can cause cell abnormalities. As long as you get a pap once a year with your regular check up, they will be able to detect any changes.