Fish oil: Need to dispute something

[Inatic]

One of my older boys Dan is studying biology this semester at the Uni of Ga in Athens, Ga. He also trains.

He says his professor states that taking any more than 3 gms is dangerous and that causes excessive bleeding. :rolleyes: (im not discounting someone that might have clotting issues) :uhuh:

He also linked to this site AHA http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4632

That also states more than 3gms are dangerous.

I gave him this site http://www.oilofpisces.com/

Anyone have information/studies that counter acts this and that is substantial. I"d like for him to be able to take it back to his professor.

He was taking more fish oils, as we all do, but then got scared off by what he read and his professor said.

Erik, Aaron, anyone?

[char-dawg]

The Japanese get, on average, a whole lot more than 3g/day, and it doesn't seem to hurt them any, considering that they have the longest lifespans on the planet. Don't have a study, but...

[Erik]

3g of combined EPA/DHA?

Keep in mind in say 6 capsules of a standard fish oil product, you're getting 1.8g of combined EPA/DHA.

[Inatic]

He's worried about bleeding to death should an injury arise.

[strongchick]

1 gram of fish oil doesn't equal one gram of EPA/DHA

[Erik]

1 gram of fish oil doesn't equal one gram of EPA/DHA

Hence my response.

[Espi]

Patients who need to lower triglycerides 2 to 4 grams of EPA+DHA per day provided as capsules under a physician’s care.


Patients taking more than 3 grams of omega-3 fatty acids from capsules should do so only under a physician’s care. High intakes could cause excessive bleeding in some people.


It must have been the combined intake of EPA+DHA since it is mentioned right above that line of recommending only 3 grams omega3 FAs, which is not the same as fish oil
So, tell your son to stop worrying.

[Aaron_F]

Effects of four doses of n-3 fatty acids given to hyperlipidemic patients for six months.

Harris WS, Windsor SL, Dujovne CA.
Department of Medicine, University of Kansas Medical Center, Kansas City 66103.

The long-term effects of practical amounts of fish oil on plasma lipids and lipoprotein cholesterol levels, bleeding times, erythrocyte deformabilities, and plasma phospholipid fatty acid (FA) composition were investigated in this trial. Twenty-eight hyperlipidemic patients with elevated cholesterol and triglyceride (TG) levels were randomly assigned to take 3, 6, 9, or 12 capsules of fish oil daily for 6 months, providing 1.25-5 g of n-3 FAs per day. Baseline parameters were compared to values after 1 and 6 months of treatment, and after 1 month of washout. There were no statistically significant changes in total cholesterol levels at any dose. Both low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) and high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) levels tended to rise, resulting in an unchanged ratio of LDL-C to HDL-C. The TG and very-low-density-lipoprotein cholesterol (VLDL-C) levels decreased significantly with all but the lowest dose. Bleeding times were unaffected despite a nonsignificant 34% increase detected at the highest dose. Red blood cell deformability tended to increase with the two middle doses only. The EPA level in plasma phospholipids was strongly correlated with n-3 FA (FA) consumption. We conclude that long-term treatment of hyperlipidemic patients with practical intakes of n-3 FAs produced persistent reductions in TG levels and no change in the LDL-C/HDL-C ratio.

specialised EPA lipid, but interesting
Dose-response effects of fish-oil supplementation in healthy volunteers.Blonk MC, Bilo HJ, Nauta JJ, Popp-Snijders C, Mulder C, Donker AJ.
Department of Internal Medicine, Free University Hospital, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

We performed a randomized, controlled study on the dose-response effects of daily supplementation of 1.5, 3, and 6 g of the marine fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA, 20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6n-3) as their ethyl esters for 12 wk in 45 healthy normotriglyceridemic male volunteers. Significant dose-related increases of the n-3 fatty acids 20:5, 22:5, and 22:6 in plasma phospholipids (p less than 0.0001) were found, corresponding roughly to decreases of the n-6 fatty acids 18:2 and 20:4 (p less than 0.001). Serum triglycerides and HDL3-cholesterol concentrations showed a dose-dependent reduction (p less than 0.05) and HDL2 cholesterol increased (p less than 0.05). Results for 3 and 6 g n-3 fatty acids were similar. No dose-dependent effects were observed in the VLDL-, LDL-, and total HDL-cholesterol subfractions; blood pressure; bleeding time; erythrocyte deformability; or capacity of polymorphonuclear leukocytes to kill Staphylococcus aureus. This study indicates that 3 g n-3 ethyl ester fatty acids appears to be the appropriate supplementation dose in humans, at least regarding lipid-profile changes and the ability to incorporate such fatty acids in the plasma phospholipids.

dont play with asprin
The combined effects of N-3 fatty acids and aspirin on hemostatic parameters in man.Harris WS, Silveira S, Dujovne CA.
Department of Medicine, University of Kansas Medical Center, Kansas City 66103.

Both fish oils and aspirin are readily available to the consumer as over-the-counter preparations. Since both of these products have been shown to prolong bleeding times, it is possible that hemostasis might be adversely affected in subjects taking them in combination. This study was undertaken to examine the effects of n-3 fatty acids and aspirin on platelet function. Eight healthy men took a total of 485 mg of aspirin over 3 days before beginning two weeks of fish oil supplementation (4.5 g of n-3 fatty acids/day). Subjects continued with fish oil while resuming aspirin treatment for 3 days. Aspirin alone prolonged bleeding times by 34% (p less than 0.05). Fish oil alone raised bleeding times only slightly (9%; N.S.), but aspirin plus fish oil raised them by 78% (p less than 0.01). The increase in bleeding times with the combination (78%) was not significantly different than the sum of the individual increases (43%). The effects of fish oil and aspirin on platelet aggregation were investigated using single and dual agonists. Although fish oil alone did not significantly raise aggregation thresholds for collagen, arachidonic acid, or PAF, it did reduce the extent of aggregation with collagen. When challenged by single or dual agonists, the combination of fish oil and aspirin did not make platelets less sensitive than did aspirin alone. Since fish oil and aspirin had synergistic effects on bleeding times, but not on platelet aggregation, these two substances appear to affect hemostasis by different mechanisms.

increasing bleeding time doesnt relaly make them dangerous per se and ultimately they are not much compared to asprin. Its jsut something to be aware of, just like crossing the road to your doctors could be dangerous, but as long as you are aware of the risk, you can take note of it.

There is not much use to take more than 3grams of EPA/DHA in normal healthy individuals in the first place.

Those suffering inflammatory diseases have been known to take 4-6grams of EPA/DHA, and in some cases, with no changes in bleeding time.

Its odd for a professor to use bleeding time stuff as a marker of dangerous, when most would try and link to the carcinogenic potential effects.

[Aaron_F]

thought I would add

Safety considerations of polyunsaturated fatty acids.Eritsland J.
Department of Cardiology, Ulleval University Hospital, Oslo, Norway.

The n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are essential nutrients; intake of relatively small amounts of these fatty acids prevents nutritional deficiencies. Replacing dietary saturated fat with PUFAs may confer health gains. Experimental data support the notion that high intake of n-6 PUFAs may increase in vivo lipid peroxidation. This effect may be counteracted by dietary antioxidant supplementation. The influence of a high n-3 PUFA intake on measures of lipid peroxidation has been equivocal. In clinical trials, subjects who consumed diets rich in n-6 or n-3 PUFAs had fewer atherothrombotic endpoints than did control groups. In this report, data regarding the influence of PUFAs on lipid peroxidation as well as on cholesterol and glucose metabolism, hemostasis, and other aspects of interest are reviewed and discussed. Currently, daily intake of PUFAs as >10% of total energy is not recommended. Below this ceiling there is little evidence that high dietary intake of n-6 or n-3 PUFAs implies health risks.

available free here (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/197S)

[homeschoolmom]

The combined effects of N-3 fatty acids and aspirin on hemostatic parameters in man[/B].Harris WS, Silveira S, Dujovne CA.
Department of Medicine, University of Kansas Medical Center, Kansas City 66103.

Both fish oils and aspirin are readily available to the consumer as over-the-counter preparations. Since both of these products have been shown to prolong bleeding times, it is possible that hemostasis might be adversely affected in subjects taking them in combination. This study was undertaken to examine the effects of n-3 fatty acids and aspirin on platelet function. Eight healthy men took a total of 485 mg of aspirin over 3 days before beginning two weeks of fish oil supplementation (4.5 g of n-3 fatty acids/day). Subjects continued with fish oil while resuming aspirin treatment for 3 days. Aspirin alone prolonged bleeding times by 34% (p less than 0.05). Fish oil alone raised bleeding times only slightly (9%; N.S.), but aspirin plus fish oil raised them by 78% (p less than 0.01). The increase in bleeding times with the combination (78%) was not significantly different than the sum of the individual increases (43%). The effects of fish oil and aspirin on platelet aggregation were investigated using single and dual agonists. Although fish oil alone did not significantly raise aggregation thresholds for collagen, arachidonic acid, or PAF, it did reduce the extent of aggregation with collagen. When challenged by single or dual agonists, the combination of fish oil and aspirin did not make platelets less sensitive than did aspirin alone. Since fish oil and aspirin had synergistic effects on bleeding times, but not on platelet aggregation, these two substances appear to affect hemostasis by different mechanisms.

I wish you had posted this last month! I mixed the two(aspirin and fish oil) and it was not pretty. My mother has heart disease so I decided to add baby aspirin to my current supps. :nonono: Not a smart move on my part.