Experimenting with your diet

[Fitaftertwins]

For those of you who are used to bulking and cutting, how long does it take you to see changes, even a little bit (measurements, clothes fit, or scale if you use that) before you say this isn't working and tweak your diet? Thanks
Sorry, I couldn't find the answer in other threads

[Ali]

I'd say a month. And you have to look at more than just the scale. Mirror, measuremnts (tape or calipers).

[strongchick]

Agree. A month - 6 weeks or so, depending on your cycle.

[Erik]

For those of you who are used to bulking and cutting, how long does it take you to see changes, even a little bit (measurements, clothes fit, or scale if you use that) before you say this isn't working and tweak your diet? Thanks
Sorry, I couldn't find the answer in other threads

Two weeks.

[Jen]

yupp, 2 weeks. not just for me, but for anyone.

[Ali]

What about water fluctuations based on your cycle...if you hit it at the wrong time...you could see the opposite affect as far as the scale goes...that's why I said one month. :shrug:

IOW...I start out when I am at my leanest part in my cycle...go 2 weeks...and I'm right before my period and holding water...I will see a gain...or steady scale...but give it 2 more weeks...and I'll show a loss. I dunno. For someone that is not used to what their body does...I'd give it a month. Just my thoughts...

[Erik]

What about water fluctuations based on your cycle...if you hit it at the wrong time...you could see the opposite affect as far as the scale goes...that's why I said one month. :shrug:

Sure ... as far as the scale goes. But at least for me, I pay very little attention to bodyweight changes when looking at progress, or lack thereof.

Hence my recent 'scale rant'.

[Jen]

Sure ... as far as the scale goes. But at least for me, I pay very little attention to bodyweight changes when looking at progress, or lack thereof.

Hence my recent 'scale rant'.

:thumb:

[Jen]

for anyone reading this that has not yet read Eriks blog update on the scale............ its an excellent rant :D

[Ali]

Sure ... as far as the scale goes. But at least for me, I pay very little attention to bodyweight changes when looking at progress, or lack thereof.

Hence my recent 'scale rant'.

I think it plays into measurements and the way I look, too. I mean, if you are holding water...and are heavier...you're going to look different, right.

Whatever...you're more experienced with this than I am....

[Erik]

I think it plays into measurements and the way I look, too. I mean, if you are holding water...and are heavier...you're going to look different, right.

Whatever...you're more experienced with this than I am....

Easy there!

Sure.

My point is simply that all else being equal, two weeks is enough to know if you're on the right track or something needs modification. If your TOM hits, then wait a few days and recheck. So it's say, 18 days instead of 14 because of that issue.

My point is generally that two weeks is good enough to net some progress if you're on the right track.

You could easily avoid the TOM issue by being at 1 and 3 weeks instead of 2 and 4 weeks for example.

[Ali]

Easy there!

Sure.

My point is simply that all else being equal, two weeks is enough to know if you're on the right track or something needs modification. If your TOM hits, then wait a few days and recheck. So it's say, 18 days instead of 14 because of that issue.

My point is generally that two weeks is good enough to net some progress if you're on the right track.

You could easily avoid the TOM issue by being at 1 and 3 weeks instead of 2 and 4 weeks for example.

Gotcha. :)

[jackieleigh]

I think it plays into measurements and the way I look, too. I mean, if you are holding water...and are heavier...you're going to look different, right.

.

I usually hold onto like 4 pounds of water during TOM and it SHOWS. I usually wait to measure or just tell Erik so if I am up I know why

[Robben]

It takes about 21 days to see the signs of change... Early weight loss is mostly the loss of water not fat...

[jackieleigh]

It takes about 21 days to see the signs of change... Early weight loss is mostly the loss of water not fat...

And would the same be true when starting a bulk...the first bit is water weight gain?

[Aaron_F]

depends on how fat you are

[Robben]

And would the same be true when starting a bulk...the first bit is water weight gain?

For me the answer would be no... Reason why I'm a no is because I've dieted down and my body fat levels are at a low state of being...

For the most part, my physique is now ready to move forward into a well planned mass gaining diet that adds muscle. You see, not all bulks are created equal... I lot of thought and great deal of planning needs to go into the planning of the bulking phase...

[jackieleigh]

For me the answer would be no... Reason why I'm a no is because I've dieted down and my body fat levels are at a low state of being...

For the most part, my physique is now ready to move forward into a well planned mass gaining diet that adds muscle. You see, not all bulks are created equal... I lot of thought and great deal of planning needs to go into the planning of the bulking phase...

Well I sure hope Erik did some planning for me :p

[Robben]

Well I sure hope Erik did some planning for me :p

Oh, I'm sure he has... :cheat:

[radgirl]

Bad, bad water. :finger:

[Fitaftertwins]

Thanks, that helps. Hope I am not pressing my luck to much here....
So, if after 2 weeks or so your measurements are headed in the wrong direction, would you first change diet (changing caloric intake by 10% or so) or exercise?
Sorry, this probably depends on the individual....
Thanks

[Erik]

Thanks, that helps. Hope I am not pressing my luck to much here....
So, if after 2 weeks or so your measurements are headed in the wrong direction, would you first change diet (changing caloric intake by 10% or so) or exercise?
Sorry, this probably depends on the individual....
Thanks

Diet, absolutely diet. And you're on the right track - adjust down by 10% (unless of course you know your calories are too low to begin with).

[Robben]

Diet, Are you keeping a journal of everything your eating?

[Fitaftertwins]

Yes, thanks Robben, I keep a detailed journal on Crosstrainer software, weigh and measure everything, so I know exactly where I am at now.
I think timing has been my biggest problem, I have been waiting too long before changing anything, instead of getting ahead of it. I go by measurements and pictures--not the scale which may be a problem. Sometimes my muscles feel like they are holding onto water (I don't even now if this is possible), my legs feel like tree trunks after lifting so heavy, so I usually just wait a few days and measure again--I don't know if this is right or not. I just started weight training a few weeks ago, so I am still trying to sort all this out. Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

[Erik]

Yes, thanks Robben, I keep a detailed journal on Crosstrainer software, weigh and measure everything, so I know exactly where I am at now.
I think timing has been my biggest problem, I have been waiting too long before changing anything, instead of getting ahead of it. I go by measurements and pictures--not the scale which may be a problem. Sometimes my muscles feel like they are holding onto water (I don't even now if this is possible), my legs feel like tree trunks after lifting so heavy, so I usually just wait a few days and measure again--I don't know if this is right or not. I just started weight training a few weeks ago, so I am still trying to sort all this out. Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

If you just started weight training recently, the scale will not be something you'll want to guage your progress by. One, your body is likely going to be retaining some additional water in the early stages - increased activity of the glyolytic enzymes/increased muscle glycogen stores/increased water, in response to the new stressor (weight training). Nothing to worry about though.

Add to that the fact that assuming your training is put together well, you're going find yourself in the sweet spot of simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain, which while it'll net you some good physical changes, it won't register so much on the scale. (ie. gain 2lbs of muscle + lose 2lbs of fat = 4lb change in your physique but no change on the scale.)

[jackieleigh]

Add to that the fact that assuming your training is put together well, you're going find yourself in the sweet spot of simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain, which while it'll net you some good physical changes, it won't register so much on the scale. (ie. gain 2lbs of muscle + lose 2lbs of fat = 4lb change in your physique but no change on the scale.)


And this is the best part of being new to effective training :clap:

[Fitaftertwins]

If you just started weight training recently, the scale will not be something you'll want to guage your progress by. One, your body is likely going to be retaining some additional water in the early stages - increased activity of the glyolytic enzymes/increased muscle glycogen stores/increased water, in response to the new stressor (weight training). Nothing to worry about though.

Add to that the fact that assuming your training is put together well, you're going find yourself in the sweet spot of simultaneous fat loss and muscle gain, which while it'll net you some good physical changes, it won't register so much on the scale. (ie. gain 2lbs of muscle + lose 2lbs of fat = 4lb change in your physique but no change on the scale.)


Thanks, sounds like I am in a great place:cool:
Screw the scale, I just want to be and look strong. For retaining additional water from the weight training how long does the early stage last? a few days? a week? Just curious.

[Erik]

Thanks, sounds like I am in a great place:cool:
Screw the scale, I just want to be and look strong. For retaining additional water from the weight training how long does the early stage last? a few days? a week? Just curious.

I'd say a couple weeks, but it's likely something that's variable from person to person.

[Robben]

Thanks, sounds like I am in a great place:cool:
Screw the scale, I just want to be and look strong. For retaining additional water from the weight training how long does the early stage last? a few days? a week? Just curious.

Not long..., a few days, perhaps a week at most... Also that retaining of water could be something that your diet is causing... Remember, you also need to drink enough water... You'll want to intake about a half a gallon a day... When it comes to building muscle and dropping bodyfat water is indeed your friend... Gotta drink it to be healthy...

Also, have fun at what your doing and the results will be all the better for it.

[Aaron_F]

I have been training for 15+ years, and still can get oedema from lifting.

but thats what inflammation does :)

[radgirl]

I have been training for 15+ years, and still can get oedema from lifting.

but thats what inflammation does :)
Edema from lifting? Can you further explain Aaron? Is this strictly due to inflammation/trauma to the muscles?

[Aaron_F]

training will stimulate protein synthesis.

this is partially mediated through a variety of inflammatory cytokines.

After a good large session, inflammation will be higher.

all of this, and including the myotrauma will result in greater levels of water in and around the muscle

If I stop training, I typicall drop 1-2kg of weight that appears back when I start training the whole body again.

After a hard session I will weigh heavier than I do after a light session

water balance is fun