"Too much protein?"

[synergyb3]

I keep coming across references on another board (a low carb one) about how too much protein is bad, will convert to glucose & cause cravings, be stored as fat, etc. "...about 50 percent of the protein you eat does go to glucose..."

Is this correct? I find it very difficult to believe. My concern has always been to make sure I get enough protein, and I have even had success losing fat when on a nutrition plan calling for 1.5g protein x bodyweight.

TIA :)

[Kate]

The molecular pathway to break down proteins has nothing to do with conversion to glucose. Proteins enter the metabolic chain at a different point than does glucose - it would take far too much energy to convert proteins to glucose and break it down from there.

That's just stupidity. Give them a :bitch:

[synergyb3]

The molecular pathway to break down proteins has nothing to do with conversion to glucose. Proteins enter the metabolic chain at a different point than does glucose - it would take far too much energy to convert proteins to glucose and break it down from there.

That's just stupidity. Give them a :bitch:

Thanks. That's exactly what I feel like doing...most of them are on LC nutrition plans barely eating any carbs and now they freak out and are afraid to eat protein, too.

They claim Dr. Atkins says that "if you are eating too much protein some of the excess may convert to glucose and behave the way carbs do in your body."

"Gluconeogenesis, where protein is use as glucose, could be your body is not using fat for fuel because of the lack of fat in the diet, could be your not eating enough calories. Could be your body can not assimilate more than 3 oz of protein at one time and the rest is going as glucose which will trigger cravings..."

[Kate]

Correction. It CAN go to glucose, but takes energy to assimilate that -

http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/08366/timages/aametab.gif



In any case, if they're cutting out carbs AND proteins... :scratch:

[Espi]

For some people , extra protein will help them eat less calories. For others it will make them hungrier sooner.

protein fills you up pretty well, but without fats, you will get hungry again quickly. A combo of P+F works best. If you have to be a fat nazi in order to cram in enough protein then it wouldn't be a good idea to eat excessive amounts of it. What's exceissive , is up to debate. More protein certainly isn't automatically going to build or retain more muscle. It does create more TEF though.

Protein can and indeed will be converted to glucose or whichever metabolic compound in the Krebs cycle when it's not needed. This is no big deal for someone who works out and needs more glucose anyway, but it might be for a couch potato.
I wouldn't go so far as to limit protein intake, but 3g/kg BW is more than plenty of protein. 2g/kg or 1g/lb is already enough.

[synergyb3]

Thanks. Is there a rule/formula about how much is too much?

[mark]

If you're operating in a caloric deficit, how is the body going to store anything as fat?

[Erik]

The molecular pathway to break down proteins has nothing to do with conversion to glucose. Proteins enter the metabolic chain at a different point than does glucose - it would take far too much energy to convert proteins to glucose and break it down from there.

That's just stupidity. Give them a :bitch:

The carbon skeleton, once the nitrogen-containing side chain is deaminated is energy that needs to be oxidized or stored. It's like glucose.

For every 1g of protein, you're going to get 0.58g of glucose if memory serves correctly.

This is why for those trying to do a ketogenic diet and get into ketosis, will have trouble doing so with too much protein.

[mcv]

The carbon skeleton, once the nitrogen-containing side chain is deaminated is energy that needs to be oxidized or stored. It's like glucose.

For every 1g of protein, you're going to get 0.58g of glucose if memory serves correctly.

This is why for those trying to do a ketogenic diet and get into ketosis, will have trouble doing so with too much protein.

How do you guys KNOW all this stuff?!? I swear - I even started out as a chemistry major!! Glad I don't have to worry about this! I just do as I am told.:laugh:

[Espi]

Apart from those people with pre-existing kidney problems, too much protein can be a problem for a minority of people who will lose better on slightly more fat with an otherwise similar calorie intake.
But for people who work out and have sub-normal to normal carb sensitivity , there's barely a thing like too much protein. Yet, it's expensive urine.

I've dropped intake myself from around 3-4 grams of protein per kg of LBM (not BW) to approx. 2-3 g/kg LBM and have noticed a couple of things
-easier adherance to diet, because the options increase
- cheaper since you can choose fattier cuts of meat, more whole eggs etc.
- less trips to the bathroom since there's less stress on the kidneys.

Something I find quite interesting is the concept of jacking up protein-intake on training days. I'm doing this right now in the hope of getting more protein used for muscle building/maintenance. Dunno whether it's going to work, but it surely feels good.

[synergyb3]

The carbon skeleton, once the nitrogen-containing side chain is deaminated is energy that needs to be oxidized or stored. It's like glucose.

For every 1g of protein, you're going to get 0.58g of glucose if memory serves correctly.

This is why for those trying to do a ketogenic diet and get into ketosis, will have trouble doing so with too much protein.

Thanks for this info.

But not being in "K" does not necessarily tranlate to no fat loss, so is it necessarily going to slow or halt good results? I don't think so. Wouldn't it ultimately depend on where one's calories are?

I had great results on a LC plan years ago & never once wondered if I was in ketosis.

[synergyb3]

Apart from those people with pre-existing kidney problems, too much protein can be a problem for a minority of people who will lose better on slightly more fat with an otherwise similar calorie intake.
But for people who work out and have sub-normal to normal carb sensitivity , there's barely a thing like too much protein. Yet, it's expensive urine.

I've dropped intake myself from around 3-4 grams of protein per kg of LBM (not BW) to approx. 2-3 g/kg LBM and have noticed a couple of things
-easier adherance to diet, because the options increase
- cheaper since you can choose fattier cuts of meat, more whole eggs etc.
- less trips to the bathroom since there's less stress on the kidneys.

Something I find quite interesting is the concept of jacking up protein-intake on training days. I'm doing this right now in the hope of getting more protein used for muscle building/maintenance. Dunno whether it's going to work, but it surely feels good.

I'm not familiar with this concept...increased protein for training days.. increased carbs, too? Sounds like it results in calorie cycling as well... I'll be interested to hear how it works.

[Espi]

Yes, calorie cycling: everything goes up, not just carbs like with carb cycling but P+F too. On low kcal days (yesterday) I eat around 1100-1300kcal and get in 2g/kg LBM of P. Only high kcal days (training days) I eat the calculated expenditure and that's going to be 2300-2500 kcal most days. This is a deficit of approx. 15%.

It's nearly laughably easy to eat only 1100 kcal after a high kcal day, especially since I only have 2 or 3 meals plus 1-2 pc of fruit and coffee.

Re the overdosing on protein. I *do* know a guy, a stupid wannabe BB who got serious kidney problems (unsure about his juicing) after ingesting.......



















800g of protein a day!

That's at least 8 x his body weight in KG! (or 5 times in archaic lbs-es).
Holy cow/crap. I bet even the healthiest kidneys would start getting trouble at these freaky doses. He must have went through a large container of whey every 2-3 days!

[Ali]

800g of protein a day!

That's at least 8 x his body weight in KG! (or 5 times in archaic lbs-es).
Holy cow/crap. I bet even the healthiest kidneys would start getting trouble at these freaky doses. He must have went through a large container of whey every 2-3 days!

:shock: :lol3: :wth: Why?

[Blondell]

idiotic :sad:

[synergyb3]

Wow...800g?? Wonder where he got the idea that could be a good idea???

[Erik]

Thanks for this info.

But not being in "K" does not necessarily tranlate to no fat loss, so is it necessarily going to slow or halt good results? I don't think so.

Slow fat loss? No. Ketosis is not necessary at all.

The one thing to consider though is how one will end up feeling. Low carb, but protein intake too high, tends to keep you out of ketosis, and therefore still running primarily on glucose. Since deriving glucose from protein is an inefficient process, and you're low carb ... some people will just feel like crap.

Lower the protein when carbs are very low, and up fat instead, tends to alleviate this - since then you're shifting reliance more to ketones.



Wouldn't it ultimately depend on where one's calories are?


Wouldn't depend on where one's calories are? Overall fat loss? Yes, definitely.

[Espi]

:shock: :lol3: :wth: Why?
He just thought he'd become more muscular faster like his buddies.

Just today I read about another wannabe bodybuilder, who nearly lost his legs upon using over 80 g of creatine a day! :shock:

[jackieleigh]

He just thought he'd become more muscular faster like his buddies.

Just today I read about another wannabe bodybuilder, who nearly lost his legs upon using over 80 g of creatine a day! :shock:

:eek: Isnt it amazing what some people will do :sad:

[Aaron_F]

800g of protein a day!

That's at least 8 x his body weight in KG! (or 5 times in archaic lbs-es).
Holy cow/crap. I bet even the healthiest kidneys would start getting trouble at these freaky doses. He must have went through a large container of whey every 2-3 days!

High protein diets and kidney function research is genrally around the 1.5g/kg area. There hasnt really been any research on hgiher doses, so basically there is not evidence to actually say high protein deits do not cause kidney issues.

However, they do cause renal hypertrophy, so at the bare minimum his kidneys must be as big as a friggen house