Gakic

[MaryBeth]

Does anyone know much about this supplement? If so, pro and cons would be great.

How much to take? Is it necessary?

[Blondell]

Um....not necessary........and overpriced.

[smuggie]

Shouldn't this be in nutrition? :uhuh:

[Cris]

What is it?

[MaryBeth]

It's a supplement that one of the girls in the club uses and she ws telling me how much stronger she was on it and she only uses 1/2 the dosage.

Mo, I didn't put it in "nutrition" because I didn't know if it really was a nutritional component VS a question of supplementation. I don't know enough about it to comment. Hence the post!

[Erik]

I do.

I actually wrote most of the book MT came out with to go with the product. (when I worked there). Of course I didn't get any credit for it - that went to the Chief Scientific Officer of the company.

[Erik]

What is it?

Glycine-arginine ketoisocaproic acid. :p

[Cris]

Glycine-arginine ketoisocaproic acid. :p

Thanks for clearing that up for me. :p

So, I read the MT website...because my mom always told me when I didn't know something to look it up...:lol3: I understand how decreasing the ammonia can slow down the fatigue and you could get more reps, but how does it increase strength?

[jaleena]

It helps get more reps by delaying fatigue (you can get 11reps with a weight you'd usually get 10 with), not increasing 1RM.
So basically, read the whole shpiel so you don't wind up like one of the many unimpressed PL'ers I know :lol:
They say increase strength...but the numbers mean what they want to say they mean, and they let you read into it what you want.

[Erik]

It helps get more reps by delaying fatigue (you can get 11reps with a weight you'd usually get 10 with), not increasing 1RM.
So basically, read the whole shpiel so you don't wind up like one of the many unimpressed PL'ers I know :lol:
They say increase strength...but the numbers mean what they want to say they mean, and they let you read into it what you want.

Indeed.

I'll write more later, but the claim of an immediate 10.5% increase in strength does not mean that your bench will go from 300 to 330 for a single right on the spot. I was really waving my hands at this claim back then.

What it means is just what Jaleena said - an increase in reps.

The thing is, the research trial was done using 30-rep sets ...

[Erik]

Here's something I wrote when trying to explain the role this supplement may have in fatigue delay and training ...

To recap, the primary triggers of muscle hypertrophy are mechanical load, density, and total time under tension. Mechanical load relates to the absolute amount of weight you’re lifting while density refers to how much work you’re doing per unit of time and total time under tension is related to the amount of time your muscles are under tension, which is refers to the overall volume your muscles are subjected to. Heavy, low-rep training serves as a trigger to enhancing what is known as myofibrillar hypertrophy; that is, growth of the actual contractile proteins themselves. Increased training density is generally associated with more traditional bodybuilding-type training which stimulates increases in sarcoplasmic hypertrophy – growth of the sarcoplasm, which houses the muscle’s many non-contractile components. This type of training results in a large amount of fatigue and various metabolic by-products, which is believed to trigger hypertrophy signaling.

There’s no doubt that intensive muscular activity causes fatigue and a decline in muscular performance. This is generally thought to be caused by the effects of metabolic changes on either the contractile machinery itself or the actual activation process. At the cellular level, fatigue is generally thought to be a result of the cumulative effects of the myriad of metabolic changes acting on the following mechanisms – the sensitivity of the myofilaments to calcium, the calcium concentration surrounding the myofilaments and the actual force produced by the crossbridges.

Historically the most popular hypothesis of the major mechanism behind fatigue has been that of intracellular acidosis, which is associated with the exercise-induced production of lactic acid. During periods of intense training and muscular activity, lactic acid is produced from the anaerobic metabolism of stored muscle glycogen. However, more recent models point to the fact that lactic acid is not the major cause of muscular fatigue. One of the compounds that is gaining press as a major contributor to muscular fatigue is inorganic phosphate. Phosphate production increases dramatically during fatigue due to the breakdown of creatine phosphate to creatine and inorganic phosphate and it appears that increase phosphate levels, rather than lactic acid induced acidosis is a more important cause of fatigue during high-intensity exercise. This dramatic increase in cellular phosphate levels leads to a metabolically induced inhibition of the myofibrillar proteins as well as the activation processes. This increase level of inorganic phosphate contributes to reduced crossbridge force, failure of sarcoplasmic reticulum calcium release as well as reduced calcium sensitivity of the myofilaments.

In addition there are of course numerous other metabolic changes during fatigue, including increased production of several cytokines (proteins that regulate the intensity and duration of immune responses) and ammonia. Ammonia is a metabolic compound that increases during exercise and has multiple effects on various physiological and biochemical systems. Elevated ammonia levels are associated with exercise fatigue and accumulation of ammonia in the blood and brain which can negatively affect CNS (central nervous system) function and various peripheral factors.

Suffice to say, scientists are still trying to fully understand the mechanisms behind fatigue and muscle growth. We know that there are a variety of potential contributors to muscle fatigue (i.e. phosphate, ammonia, etc) which results in impaired muscular performance. In addition, the precise mechanisms behind the effects of the new supplement, GAKIC, are also not yet fully understood. However, what has been shown is that GAKIC exerts a significant effect on the reduction of exercise-induced fatigue. But we also know that one of the key hypertrophy signals is the build up of fatigue so how does GAKIC tie into this? Recall that one of the keys to maximizing muscle growth is total time under tension. So, assuming sufficient mechanical load and therefore intramuscular tension, as well as sufficient training density, overall training volume remains an important factor in the total amount of structural training adaptations (i.e. muscle growth) achieved.

Think back to one of the ways creatine exerts its powerful effects – it allows your muscles to do more work (i.e. reps). So if you could normally bench press 225 pounds for 8 reps, with the use of creatine, you might be able to bang out 10-12 reps. The result is increased total time under tension – and therefore training volume – as well as greater intramuscular tension and recruitment of high threshold motor units. GAKIC functions in a similar capacity, although by way of different mechanisms. Normally as you progress through a set, there is a build up of metabolic fatigue and various metabolic by-products which effectively impairs muscular performance leading to the termination of your set. Through the use of GAKIC, the production of these fatigue compounds is delayed which allows you to extend your set, complete a few more reps, and thus increase total time under tension and intramuscular tension, resulting in greater protein degradation and resultant structural adaptations. So, we’re not trying to eliminate fatigue, since it does serve as a key hypertrophy signal. Rather, we’re trying to delay the onset of fatigue in order to increase the total time under tension the trained muscles are subjected to, which again, is a major component to maximizing muscle growth. The end result is an increase in muscle work and force output, a reduction in anaerobic fatigue, a reduction in protein catabolism and therefore an overall increase in muscular performance ultimately leading to potentially improved strength and muscle gain.

[Erik]

It tastes like crap by the way.

I will say it results in tremendous pumps ... due to the very high amount of arginine in it. But, so what? :lol:

[jaleena]

Would it be likely to help with HIIT performance through the same mechanism of delaying muscular fatigue?

[MaryBeth]

So if I'm reading this right, you agree it's not worth the money for the small amount of gains.

Miriam uses this and I worry about if she should. Would you recommend it for someone?

[Erik]

So if I'm reading this right, you agree it's not worth the money for the small amount of gains.

Miriam uses this and I worry about if she should. Would you recommend it for someone?

Why would you worry? It's not harmful.

I'm not a big 'supplement recommender' in general. I like the basics - protein for convenience, fish oils, and 'health stuff' (multis, vitamin C/E, blah, blah). Maybe creatine.

So no, this is not a required supplement. Far from it.

[MaryBeth]

Why would you worry? It's not harmful.

I'm not a big 'supplement recommender' in general. I like the basics - protein for convenience, fish oils, and 'health stuff' (multis, vitamin C/E, blah, blah). Maybe creatine.

So no, this is not a required supplement. Far from it.


See? This is why you rock...straight to the punch! Thanks!

[jaleena]

Would it be likely to help with HIIT performance through the same mechanism of delaying muscular fatigue?
:overhere:
Thanks :lub:

[Erik]

Would it be likely to help with HIIT performance through the same mechanism of delaying muscular fatigue?

It would make sense for this to be the case I would think.

[jaleena]

I will try after the meet :hehe:

[MichelleS]

I have to say that this is great. I would waste my money one it any day. :D it worked better for me then EC any day. the 8 pills were a bit much but I only took 6 and still got some great results.

When I get a new bottle I'm going to put it to work on the hiit Jaleena and see what happens too.



And Erik I have the book and its great work.

[Cris]

Would it be likely to help with HIIT performance through the same mechanism of delaying muscular fatigue?


Now this interests me.....:clap:

[MichelleS]

Would it be likely to help with HIIT performance through the same mechanism of delaying muscular fatigue?

did any one try it yet for this? :popcorn:

I'm about to give it a shot for cutting I loved it durning my bulk

[Blondell]

I've pretty much given up on supps like this....w/ the exception being no-xplode. I'm always trying to find a cheaper way to get similar effects of the higher priced supps. 1fast400 has made it pretty easy for me. They have bulk powders of supps that I can just combine and either cap or make into a fruity drink. This takes some experimenting, though. Many of the powders are bitter. :yucky: I don't mind the tase much for the money that I save. :thumb:

[Ana]

I've pretty much given up on supps like this....w/ the exception being no-xplode. I'm always trying to find a cheaper way to get similar effects of the higher priced supps. 1fast400 has made it pretty easy for me. They have bulk powders of supps that I can just combine and either cap or make into a fruity drink. This takes some experimenting, though. Many of the powders are bitter. :yucky: I don't mind the tase much for the money that I save. :thumb:

splain please. I tried it twice but it did nothing for me, but then again I tried it blindly and i'm not sure what it's supposed to do :shrug:

[Blondell]

splain please. I tried it twice but it did nothing for me, but then again I tried it blindly and i'm not sure what it's supposed to do :shrug:

It's really just a pre-w/o stim. Gets me going on the days when I really don't feel all that energetic.

[Erik]

I've pretty much given up on supps like this....w/ the exception being no-xplode.

Now THAT is a crap supplement.

[MichelleS]

Now THAT is a crap supplement.

Yup that stuff never worked for me. But otehr things sure did xplode :sad:

[MichelleS]

:bump: I used this the other day for my HIIT (bike) and it worked like a charm kept my legs from hurting so bad that I wanted to quit. then I used it during my 45 min of stairmill hell (which I could normally get only 20 mins) my legs didn't feel like they were going to fall off in pain. I'm going to try it again monday on the tready