Caculating a newbie's calories

Discussion in 'Beginner Training & Nutrition' started by fluteangel, May 18, 2009.

  1. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    I have someone who is just about to begin weight training. She has only been doing Tae-Bo since January and no weight training. She's going to be doing a full body split 3x's a week for at least two weeks to get her used to weight lifting movements and work on form, and from there we're going to use the set up from "constructing a full body routine" to get her building muscle.

    She wants to lose weight (of course) and have the body of a fitness model. She's 5'7" and 140 lbs, by no means overweight, she just needs to put on some muscle mass.

    Question 1:
    Is this a good looking training program for starters? Also have her doing 60/120x6 intervals twice a week and one day of SS for 30 minutes.

    Question 2: Do I calculate her calories to maintain or to lose?(bw x 14-15 or bwx12? Thinking if I start out too low at 12, where will she go? Better to do maintenance first and then drop?)
     
  2. Blondell

    Blondell Former Postwhore

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    I would start at ~15xbw to start.


    She is trying to gain, right? Why the intervals? :)
     
  3. Inatic

    Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

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    she has to figure out what she wants to do first because she wants muscle gain and lose 'wt' not the right combo..

    At maintenance she might recomp as a newbie and lose the intervals.?
     
  4. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    Is starting at 14xbw ok? I did that for maintenance, because while she does want to lose fat (hence the intervals) I was hoping for a newbie recomp because she's never really lifted before and she's what I would call "skinny fat". She doesn't have much muscle and if she wants to look like a fitness model at 5'7" 140 lbs, she needs to lose fat and gain muscle....so I thought going for maintenance calories to see how she does (which is a LOT more than she was eating before!) first before going up or down.

     
  5. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    Goal 1 - lose weight

    Goal 2 - gain muscle

    Which is it?

    Already mentioned by someone else, but why the intervals if trying to gain muscle?

    And again, it comes back to the goals above. Which is the priority?

    Again - depends on the goals and where the priority is - fat loss or muscle gain. Which is it?

    That changes what the right answer is.
     
  6. Anca

    Anca Well-Known Member

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    Angela- do you have any nutrition certification? Which one? I was looking at the ISSA one since I can't get the CISSN (no college degree and the material would be way over my head :oops:). Or are you making the diet recommendations kinda 'on the side'? I always thought PTs are not allowed to give specific nutrition advice- only general recommendations (such as, take the skin off the chicken breast; eat more veggies etc.).
     
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  7. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    Crap with a capital C.
     
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  8. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    I do not have a nutrition certification - I'm giving her the info on how to set up her own diet based on knowledge I've learned. SHe wasn't eating any protein or fat, and was basicaly eating fruit and lean cuisine, so I gave her the numbers and a list of proteins/fats/carbs around which to help her base her diet. I think the ISSA does offer a nutritional certification, which I was looking into and the stuff in their training book was pretty extensive about nutrition (though a bit outdated, as most of it is: i.e. the 1-2-3 rule, 1 portion fat, 2 protein, 3 carb, etc.), but I'm wondering if their nutritional stuff would be any better since it's a newer course.

    She's not paying me so much for her diet anyway, she's paying me to come train her and help her SET UP her diet, cuz she doesn't know how to eat. That never made sense to me: diet is related to most of the results you get, why can't we tell our clients what to eat? :shrug:

    She told me her goal is now to build shape and strength first, then lose the fat. Then she asked "which is the safest way"? :blink: I told her there wasn't a safer way, but she'd get better results with building first.

    Yeah, but it was one of the cheaper options (GI Bill covers it, so I'm not out any money to start) and if I'm not sure it's something I want to do long term, I figured this was a good way to test the waters. If I like it, I'll go on to a better certification. If not, nothing much lost. :shrug:
     
  9. Anca

    Anca Well-Known Member

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    But does it at least make it legal for a PT to offer specific diet advice?

    Is there another nutrition cert. that is better than the ISSA and doesn't require a college degree and/or college-level chemistry knowledge?
     
  10. Original Kloe®

    Original Kloe® *sizzle*

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    :nope:

    "Legally", the only professionals who are able to issue specific meal plans are registered dieticians (in Canada, anyway). Most of the reason for this is medical issues, dietary issues/conditions that the client may have that you could be unaware of, along with medication interactions. Your PT insurance also doesn't cover you for prescribing diets, so you can get sued big time if they end up with any kind of issues.

    Pretty much all PT certs only allow giving general advice like portion sizing, reading nutritional info, healthier alternatives, etc. And the nutrition certs they offer usually have no broader expanse on the scope of practice than the PT cert.
     
  11. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    Is she relatively lean?

    I see that logic as a waste of money (and time and effort since IMO it literally sucks) - if a person was paying for it. If it's free, well, it's free.
     
  12. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, she is relatively lean, just not a lot of muscle, that I can tell. I will tell better tonight when I take her measurements.

    Yeah, it would have been a waste of money, but it's free to me - I'm only out the $20 for shipping. :lol:
     
  13. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    You'll be able to tell what better by taking her measurements?

    Looking at her should be all you need to tell if she's lean.

    Fair enough.

    I still think it's a waste of time to put time and effort into a certification that's poor ... just because it doesn't cost you anything.
     
  14. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    I'd be able to tell just HOW lean she is. She's slim, but I'm wondering what kind of muscle mass she has. I could end up surprised. :shrug:

    Yeah, I agree, after it being done now, I probably wouldn't do it again, except that it was free - but thing is, it seemed like the best option at the time, but hindsight is 20/20.

    In my case, which cert. would you have recommended?
    I see an idea for a sticky.
     
  15. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    No you can't. Why because of what the results of your skinfold test say?

    How could you end up surprised?

    There's only one nutrition one worth doing - the CISSN.
     
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  16. Blondell

    Blondell Former Postwhore

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    What about those w/ no 4 yr degree?
     
  17. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    Here is their work around ... looks fairly tough. :scratch: (which I guess is a good thing to maintain the integrity of the organization since so many certs are so easy to get). So in this context, it looks like the other certs do have benefit if the longer term plan is to get this one. I stand corrected.

    Can I still take the CISSN examination even if I do not meet the initial requirements?

    Alternatively, if you meet ALL of the requirements below (and do not have a 4-year degree), you can take the CISSN exam.

    The individual must be practicing in the field for at least five years and be a paid member of The ISSN.

    The individual must at least be certified as a trainer by the NSCA, ACE or ACSM (CPT or HFI respectively).

    The individual must also have one or more of the following certifications in nutrition: HFI, CHES, ACE-Lifestyle & Weight Management, DTR, AFPA-nutrition, ISSA-nutrition, Penn-Foster School-nutrition.

    Applicant MUST show proof of certification to the ISSN during the registration/application process. If no proof of certification is demonstrated, than the ISSN reserves the right to not allow the individual to take the certification, and we reserve the right to charge 25% of the certification fee as Administrative Costs.

    The individual must have attended (with proof) at least three ISSN National Conferences in the past 4 years.
     
  18. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

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    Easily - she was very covered up when we met.
     
  19. Erik

    Erik Admin

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    That doesn't require a body fat test then. It requires less clothes. :lol:
     
  20. Jen

    Jen Well-Known Member

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    Angela, while I think it it very kind of you to help this person, I am going to chime what the others stated. Pick one goal first. It's like saying you are going to climb a mountain and sail a boat at the same time. need to decide which one you want to do first.

    Also, and this is my concern, you seem to be going back and forth on what she should do with diet. etc. Have you considered just referring her to someone with a broader, more experienced base? I just feel like if your client is very set on her goals, trying things out that you are uncertain of isnt going to be beneficial to her. and number one is always the clients well-being.
    Just my thoughts.
     
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