Setting up a new training/diet routine

Discussion in 'Training' started by fluteangel, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    For those who don't know, here is the skinny:
    been training for a loooong time
    started working with LBC in March, found out I had a hypothyroid and stopped till June while I got my meds optimized
    Restarted with Noel in June-August and am now on my own.
    We left off at her just helping me ease back into training. I didn't take a full week off during all of this (since January) that I can remember, though I did take close to it, and had extremely low volume.

    On top of this, I have the Army PT test in a week and a half: pushups, situps and running.

    I'm a little frustrated. 4 weeks ago I set my diet at 10xbw = 1280 cals and significantly upped my training volume. Yes, I started dropping, but weight has budged, what, 2 lbs, maybe? Today I was back at 127, yesterday I was 126.2. I was hoping for a little more than this. I'll take measurements in a little while (when I find my lost tape measure) to find out what's changed for a better progress guage, because the scale sucks! I"m also feeling burnt out and unmotivated to be in the gym. Not good timing when the PT test is in two weeks.

    So here are my thoughts:
    considering taking next week off from lifting, just doing PT training - pushups/abs/running - calories stay the same.

    Training until the PT test (Oct. 3) and then taking the next week off.

    Changing my training program next week regardless of whether I start it or not, to 4 days a week of lifting, to keep volume the same, but time shorter. Thinking Upper/Lower Heavy/Light type split. PT stuff built in. Cardio, not sure? If I do the upper/lower split, how can I structure it to have the workouts take less time?

    Also thinking, my progress is probably actually pretty good and I don't know it, so maybe I should be happy with 1/2 lb. a week loss and when that stalls implement re-feeds?

    I would LOVE some help with this. Thanks!!

    P.S. I've also been reading Leigh Peele's blog on the subject of dieting and training with a hypothyroid, and y'all can read it here but in a nutshell, at the bottom of the blog she gives her suggestions and says this:

    Watch training volume and keep it lower. Less is more. I would not recommend lots of HIIT mixed with even a moderate deficit (25% below daily caloric need).

    Schedule re-feeds a little more frequently. The harder you diet down, the more you need to break.

    Don’t be overly carb restrictive for extended periods of time. If sensitive to dieting down I recommend keeping to a very minimum protein intake (.08 – 1xbw) so that you can keep a higher fat and carbohydrate intake on a regular basis. Ideally a carb cycling program is best, however due to water retention issues you are going to be more likely to retain water on your “ups” so keep this in mind. You can diet down just as low as anyone else though.
    So I'm wondering about doing something like that: carb cycling (5 low, 2 high) with lower intensity workouts. I just finished mine and the first two were so CNS taxing, I physically felt I could do nothing else....though I did:angel4:
  2. Erik

    Erik Admin

    I'll comment more later, on Leigh's stuff as well.

    In the mean time, you're defining high training volume as what? Let's see more details.

    Next question would be, what to you is satisfactory progress and how are you measuring it?
  3. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    Well, I wouldn't call it high volume, just higher than what I was doing before.

    Basically, my plan looks like this:
    lift 3x's a week
    A1 3x8-10
    A2 3x8-10

    B1 4x10-15

    At the moment, I'm also adding in extra pushups and ab work for my PT test.

    Cardio is 30/60 x 6 intervals 2x's a week, ab circuit +20 minutes running 2 x's a week.

    To me, satisfactory progress, would be closer to 1+ pounds a week. I calculated my deficit to equal about that much, but things aren't showing that.
  4. LifeLova

    LifeLova Under construction

    Do you measure and track everything you eat?
  5. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    Yes, of course. However, I wrote out a diet plan and stick to it so I'm not varying things much.
  6. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    hello? responses, thoughts, ideas??
  7. Patricia

    Patricia Well-Known Member

    A thought?

    Probably not the best way to go about getting people to take the time out to help you.
  8. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    ok, what do you suggest? I'm not trying to be mean or pushy, I apologize for probably coming off that way. I just notice what when I seem to ask for thoughts or help I end up waiting a looooooooong time. That isn't helpful when I don't have a long time to wait.

    I'm especially interested in hearing what Erik has to say about Leigh's stuff, as he mentioned that specifically.
  9. Patricia

    Patricia Well-Known Member

    I suggest not over thinking it like you always do.

    And, I am speaking from experience.
  10. clc315

    clc315 Active Member


    Just glancing over your routine if I'm reading it correctly that does look like high volume. Up to 60 reps on your A1 and A2 exercises and between 200-300 reps on your B1-B5 exercises...done three times a week? Not to mention extra PT work and fairly intensive cardio, ab circuit and running twice a week on top of a caloric deficit of 10xbdyweight. That's pretty darn high volume IMO.

    You have two goals and you need to prioritize what is most important to you. Is it your performance in the PT test or fatloss? At this point, there is not much you can do to improve fitness qualities for your PT test, so I would focus on recovery and regeneration to allow for optimal performance.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Original Kloe®

    Original Kloe® *sizzle*


    You're 126 lbs, and 5'-whatever. You're a healthy weight.

    It always sounds like you keep trying to get to your comp weight/body (AKA "The Glory Days"), when that's not realistic right now. You have a medical issue that has changed all that.

    Take a step back, relax, eat healthy foods, and workout without analyzing your program to death. Do it cause you like it.

    What's your goal in all of this?! Developing mental psychosis?!!!!!!

    When are you gonna satisfied with your body?!!!! :shrug:
    • Like Like x 1
  12. fluteangel

    fluteangel Well-Known Member

    I am not overthinking. What does it always seem like every time I point out the different options that I have (and would just like help choosing one based on other's experiences) I get accused of overthinking?

    Right, it is high volume. So, I'm in agreement with you that I need to rest. I have been doing a PT improvement plan for the last 3 weeks and it's really helped. I can tell because where my pushups, situps and running used to be a real struggle, now it's getting much easier, so I don't really want to stop with that plan - it's not time intensive or high volume anyway, UNLESS, the week off would really help me. Then again, I'm sensing that whether or not I take a week off really doesn't matter, even if it is this close to the test. Would that be accurate?
    Thanks Kloe, I appreciate your concern, but look, I've been trying to diet off the 20 lbs. I gained since last year on my bulk since January. I've dropped maybe 5, and very few inches. Yeah, I'm at a healthy weight, it's not about that. I KNOW that. Just because I have a hypothyroid doesn't matter. I'm medicated and optimized, so I should be able to drop the excess fat without a problem. It's not so much the weight that I'm trying to drop, it's the fat that's covering up all my hard earned muscle. I know what my body is capable of, and there is no reason I can't get back to it and maintain it. I don't mean my contest look, that's not realistic, but AT LEAST as lean as I was before I added the extra muscle. The abs were there, the cellulite was gone, and oh yeah, I could fit into my size 2's instead of still being stuck in size 6's.

    That's not unrealistic or an unhealthy goal. I appreciate the concern, but I an assure you that I am taking good care of myself and not trying to do anything silly. I did have a goal to compete again this year, but if I can't even drop the residual weight, how will I get to a competition weight?

    My goal: lose the fat that I gained, I know what I want to look like in the mirror, and what measurements I"m looking for. Mostly, I want to fit back into my clothes. From there, I want to add more muscle later.

    I AM happy with my body, but I'm not satisfied. That's the name of the game in improvement right? :)

    Back to the original questions:
    1) opinions on why I haven't lost more?
    2) what do you think of Leigh's idea of calorie cycling (5 days low, 2 days high for hypothyroid people)
    3) Will it make a difference if I take a week off now before the PT test (including PT training) or not? If I take a week off of training and just concentrate on the pt improvement, would it still make sense to stay at a deficit.
  13. Erik

    Erik Admin

    Really? Well clearly that's not the case though is it? You know you're optimized why? Because the doctor says so? Your body still isn't responding according to you.

    Again, if there's no reason, then what's the current reason you're not able to?

    Serious questions actually.

    It's not like you're not dieting. Yet nothing is really happening.

    What did you look like BEFORE the Mike Davies plan?

    Why did you bulk to gain 20 lbs? Why so much weight?

    The thing is, just because you think it should be easy to go from A to B, doesn't mean it is for YOUR body at THIS point in time. Because clearly, it's proving not to be easy wouldn't you say?

    The problem with these extreme preps, that you yourself went through, is that while it can and often will work (obviously since it did for you), when the body is fresh and healthy, it can do a serious number on the metabolic processes of your body; in the end actually raising 'metabolic set point' and making 1) it harder to get back down and 2) a new and higher metabolic set point.

    People just do not realize the post-contest consequences of these contest prep approaches.

    Is that the cause here? No one can really say for sure.

    Is it your hypoT issues? Maybe that too.

    But whatever it is, clearly something, or a combination of things is affecting your body in such a way to disagree with your repeated assertions that this should be easy for your body to do. Since it's not.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Erik

    Erik Admin

    I like the general tone of Leigh's stuff, but she's not on the mark on a number of things. IMO. She is also more geared to the average dieter. I don't know how much experience she has taking someone from good to great.

    And first off, this post is about training with HypoT, yet you say you're optimized ... which would mean you're not really training with in a highly symptomatic state ... no?

    The recommendation for lots of HIIT on moderate deficits? Well, no one should be doing LOTS of HIIT anyway. I'm not sure how she's defining lots. Twice a week isn't lots for example. And twice a week is a pretty generic recommendation. But you don't HAVE to do HIIT if you don't want to. You could tone down the intensity of the interval training to moderate (longer sprints) and simply have a longer workout. Moderate intensity intervals are great as well.

    Schedule refeeds more frequently - this is for the HypoT people right? But then she says the harder you diet down the more you should refeed. There's two types of people there - the HypoT people and then the people who are dieting down harder. So which is that statement to refeed more being applied to? The harder you diet down? I wouldn't say refeed more just because you're HypoT. That's a little to 'blankety' for me.

    I see no justification for a low protein intake. Not sure why that's considered restrictive intake mind you. 1g/lb is adequate and not considered low.

    There's no way to say that a carb cycling plan is ideal for HypoT either. Carb cycling is one tool. In some cases an unnecessarily complicated tool. So I'm confused then? The first recommendation is to refeed more often, but now it's to carb cycle. Which is it?

    Honestly, I've trained a lot of people with HypoT, and it's not 10x more complicated than training those not suffering from it. Success is still right there for the taking. You have to still adhere to basic fat-loss principles, and pay attention your body's feedback in order to make adjustments. It's basic outcome-based decision making.

    Overall, how many weeks have you been dieting now then? Since your bulk that is ...

    Why not just throw out what you're doing and simply give Leigh's program a shot, by the book. Don't try to figure it out, adjust it, or anything, just execute the plan and give it a chance to work for you. Then you'll know if there's some lessons in there for you.
  15. MichelleS

    MichelleS Well-Known Member

    I really think you are way over thinking this. When we try to help you you go your own way no matter what options that were given to you. I'm not getting mad at you, if you ask for an opinion don't go well that may be true but this is what I want to do.

    If you've been dieting that long and not lost what you want then something needs to be changed. 10xbw is very low coupled with your high volume your body is not wanting to let go of it. And resulting being stuck.

    Didn't you do a crazy prep the last time you competed and have a bad rebound after and then in to a bulk? Your body is going :eh: I think your body needs a dieting break to reset itself cause you might be trying to drop it fast and your body is going :yell: are you crazy I'm not going to drop this fat if that's what you want to do. You have to listen to your body. If it needs a break TAKE ONE. If you need a diet break TAKE ONE. Its only what 1 or 2 weeks that you may not be losing weight. Get over or should I say suck it up buttercup :lol: that 2 weeks that you can't drop cause it will help your body in the long run.

    • Like Like x 1
  16. Inatic

    Inatic Ya Gotta Wanna! Moderator

    From the thyroid side:

    Angela, when was the last time you ran labs?

    You are taking a differnt brand of natural and maybe it isnt an optimal dose for you. I know many that have switched to (NT) need more..
    Maybe rule that part out?

    In addition, long term dieting will slow down a normal person metobolism, so we as thyroid peeps will definitely feel that.

    Diet break??
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  17. Chicky9914

    Chicky9914 Member


    I know I don't come on here often and I haven't talked to you in a while, but 10x BW with all that training/cardio is a LOT for the body to endure, especially after all you've been through. I am in a similar position as you are....I competed at 110 in April and got up to 140, the biggest I've ever been in my life. I went from wearing a kid's size 12 to size 9. It's heartbreaking as hell, but when it comes down to it, you have to decide for yourself: Do you train to be healthy or do you train because you want to look good? The two don't always go hand in hand. If your health is your ultimate concern in the long-run, then it could take a year, year and a half even to re-set your metabolism. I had a friend who dieted down to extremes and her body was so wrecked it took her 2 or 3 yrs to step back onstage.

    And you say you want to fit back into your size 2's, but if you've gained all this muscle (and I assume you've put on some in the leg department), a size 2 may no longer be realistic for you. I have already accepted the fact that if I want the legs I need to WIN, size 2 jeans aren't an option. So I bought 6's and 8's.

    The key here, and I have to remind myself of it every day is PATIENCE.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. smuggie

    smuggie Maureen aka Mo

    That is correct. I was fitting into size 3s and 4s in pants at one point, but there's no way that's ever going to happen again. I have too much muscle for that now.

    Who cares what size your clothes are anyway? Size is just another random number people get way too hung up on anyway.

  19. Cathie

    Cathie I have SFP :mecry:

    I can third this! I know I will never fit back into my 0s and 2s and I'm fine with that. I'd rather have legs :D
  20. smuggie

    smuggie Maureen aka Mo

    I'd rather have an ass, because I didn't have one before. [​IMG]

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