Vaccinations/Children

Discussion in 'Health & Beauty' started by Erik, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. pixie

    pixie Well-Known Member

    2,609
    159
    63
    I don't have kids so my opinion here is purely academic (and to prevent banning) and I have to agree with Noel's statement about finding a Doctor you can communicate with, beyond the AMA recommendations they are supposed to tell you to cover themselves. I think that is key for our own health as well as our kids.
     
  2. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Wow Laura. That was an awesome and very insightful post. Thanks very much for taking the time to post all that.

    So given there's enough science to go along with the logic there, why is the medical paradigm currently the way it is? Super shots (multiple vaccines), vaccination with HPV before even leaving the hospital, lots of vaccinations before the age of 3, etc.

    To that last point, I think I posted in the beginning, but in Europe, I believe they don't do a lot of vaccinating before the age of 2.
     
  3. Petro

    Petro Well-Known Member

    2,640
    145
    63
    There are couple of reasons.....all of which apply not only to this issue, but many health related areas and the spectrum between the 'research' that is widely publicized and the actually research that exists

    1)Researcher have a job to do, money to make...although most of them go into the field in hopes of charting new waters, finding things that haven't been discovered yet, or buck conventional wisdom....the bottom line is....if they want to get paid, they have to research what people are willing to pay them to research....There is simply not as much money behind anti-vaccine research as there is behind pro-pharm, pro-vaccine research.....

    Also, in research the goal is to get as many publications under your name as possible, unfortunately in most cases the QUALITY of the publication is not as important as the QUANTITY of the research....this is why you often see the same study done over and over and over again ad nauseam, with slightly different parameters. It is quicker to make a different variation of a wheel rather than reinvented it

    So, say a researcher is lucky enough to be independently funded and does some anti-vaccine research.....this is not the type of research that many health advocates want to see...so it is impossible to publicize it much...the mainstream media ignores studies that are not highly finances and internally publicized so no one ever hears about it...The research is out there, but just undercover.

    Just look how long it has taken the government to finally begin to accept that there is something wrong with the food pyramid

    2) Doctors are trapped along these lines in many ways as well...Some doctors really could careless (sadly) and just find it EASIER to follow the status quo and not do their own exploration or research on the area. Some (most) are so petrified about some of the major (jail time, huge fines, losing license) malpractice consequences of recommending against vaccination that although they may not agree with it, they have to weight the risks, and this normally means not bucking the system.....the liability that doctors face is unreal and really some of the lawyers that deal in this area are unscrupulous

    3) Frankly, the fact that many quasi "natural doctors', naturopaths, herbalists and others on that side of the spectrum are so loud against vaccines....makes mainstream medicine instantly skeptical and does the vaccine fight a disservice
     
  4. RpH

    RpH I'm actually educated

    11,904
    384
    83
    And to add to what Laura said, only the newer doctors and med students have had access to this info. The older doctors didn't have access at their fingertips in med school and since they've been in practice for some time, don't take the time to research it since it has no positive cash flow benefit.
     
  5. RpH

    RpH I'm actually educated

    11,904
    384
    83
    Going thru the mail this morning, I received a CE on "A Guide to Immunizing and Advising Travelers." It not only gives the reccommendations on immunizations but the requirements to enter each country. So if you're going to Rwanda, Mali, Ghana, Gabon, Sierra Leone, or any other country for that matter, I'm you're guy. All require proof of vaccination against Yellow Fever. Saudi Arabia requires quadrivalent meningococcal vaccination when traveling for the hajj. ALOT of countries require vaccination to enter. More than I had thought.
     
  6. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Here's a blurb i just read regarding vaccines and autism when reading about the Hannah Poling case.

    As an aside, there are supposedly 4,900 autism cases pending in Federal "Vaccine Court." :blink:

    There is little doubt that thimerosal, a preservative that is 49.6 percent ethylmercury, is a contributing factor in many cases of autism. It is a well-established fact that exposure to mercury can cause immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioral dysfunctions -- all similar to traits defining, or associated with, autism.

    There may also be another component in vaccines that is causing damage. For instance, according to Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD:

    “Another important factor with regard to mercury on the mind … is synergistic toxicity -- mercury's enhanced effect when other poisons are present. A small dose of mercury that kills 1 in 100 rats and a dose of aluminum that will kill 1 in 100 rats, when combined have a striking effect: all the rats die.

    Doses of mercury that have a 1 percent mortality will have a 100 percent mortality rate if some aluminum is there. Vaccines contain aluminum.”

    Have Autism Rates Declined Since Thimerosal Was Removed From Vaccines?

    Thimerosal was taken out of most childhood vaccines at the beginning of the decade. In 2006, studies of two government databases indicated that autism rates went up as thimerosal dosages increased, then began to decline as thimerosal was removed.

    Yet, if you look at this Time magazine article, it says that autism rates have continued to climb since thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001. Why the discrepancy?

    It could be due to the fact that in 2002 the U.S. government began recommending flu shots to children under 2 (and now recommends them for kids until they’re 18). Well, most flu shots still contain thimerosal, so many infants are still being exposed to mercury.

    There is also the issue of vaccine timing.

    “Giving too many vaccines over too short a time to infants whose nervous system is not yet fully developed can also trigger autism and its spectrum of disorders,” Dr. Miller says.

    And, according to Dr. Russell Blaylock, multiple vaccines given close together over-stimulate your brain's immune system and, via the mechanism of "bystander injury," destroy brain cells.

    What Else is Fueling the Autism Epidemic?

    Autism now affects about one in 150 U.S. children. A small portion of these cases, perhaps 1 percent, may be due to genetic defects, and the rest are likely caused by exposure to toxic chemicals, viruses or other environmental influences.

    One environmental influence that you may not have heard about was suggested by a November 2007 study in the Journal of the Australasian College of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine. It found that electromagnetic radiation (EMR) from cell phones, cell towers, Wi-Fi devices and other similar wireless technologies may be an accelerating factor in autism.

    After five years of research on children with autism and other membrane sensitivity disorders, the researchers found that EMR negatively affects cell membranes, and allows heavy metal toxins, which are associated with autism, to build up in your body.

    Meanwhile, autism rates have increased concurrently along with the proliferation of cell phones and wireless use.

    EMR, the researchers say, could impact autism by facilitating early onset of symptoms or by trapping heavy metals inside of nerve cells, which could accelerate the onset of symptoms of heavy metal toxicity and hinder therapeutic clearance of the toxins.
     
  7. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Picked up two good books - neither are anti-vaccine nut bars either. Both are medical doctors, but doctors who are not blind to the pro pro pro vaccination standard that is in place today. They're more in the be informed, modify the schedule of timing and make your own decisions camp.

    1. What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children Vaccinations

    2. The Vaccine Book

    I've started #1 - really good so far.
     
  8. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Read something interesting in the book I'm reading right now. First though, in Canada we have complete freedom of choice when it comes to vaccinations - all of them.

    Interestingly enough, not everyone in the US has this. The US uses the public school registration process to verify that all children's vaccinations are up to date.

    Only 20 states allow parents to delcine some or all vaccines at public school registration on the basis of personal beliefs

    28 states allow parents to waive vaccines for school entry only if their religion dictates they do so. Since most religions have no problems with vaccines, this loophole isn't available to most people.

    2 states have mandatory vaccination laws (haven't gotten to which yet). Parents who decline vaccination in these states can have their kids taken away from them. :wth: on that one. :blink:

    Private schools, childcare centers, camps, and other recreational clubs in most states can set their own vaccine requirements.
     
  9. Jen

    Jen Well-Known Member

    9,015
    323
    83
    do you know specifically what states they are referring to?
     
  10. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Haven't gotten to that point yet ... assuming it's further along in the book.
     
  11. Audrey

    Audrey Well-Known Member

    1,077
    138
    63

    These are the 2 books that I read when making the decision on whether or not to vaccine my daughter (now 6 months), and if we were to vaccine, which one to do and which ones to delay (or decide not to do entirely).

    Both books should really help you in making an informed decision... and at the end, this is the most important thing. As a parent (future parent), you have a responsibility to research the topic and make an informed decision based on that. Blindly following the doctors' advice is not the best way to go about it.

    We decided to vaccinate, but only do the most important vaccines. We rejected the Hep B vaccine (which is given at birth here in the US) and we probably won't do this vaccine until our daughter is in her teen years (if we ever decide to do it). Unless the baby is born to an infected mother, messes with infected needles or has unprotected sex (not likely to happen...), the chance of getting infected from this disease is close to none. As the child gets closer to their teen years (and may have a higher risk of getting infected), this vaccine may become more important. Then again, if the child/teen uses infected needles or had unprotected sex, you may have bigger problems than just being infected with Hep B.

    We also rejected any vaccinations against the flu (I have never been vaccinated against the flu either, including when pregnant as I rejected the vaccine at that time too). I firmly believe that a healthy immune system helps in not becoming sick in the first place. Besides, the cases where people get REALLY sick from the flu are very rare (and often blown out of proportions by the media).

    The vaccine against the Rotavirus depends mostly on what your plans as far as who will take care of the baby are. If the baby is in a daycare facility, then the chances of catching the rotavirus are quite high. If family/a sitter will look after your baby (and therefore the baby will have minimal contact with other kids), the chances become lower. At any rate, rotavirus is mostly a concern when the baby is still very young (less than 6 months) because of the risk of dehydration, so depending on when you decide to first vaccinate, you may not need this vaccine (I also believe you can't start the vaccine if the baby is older than 6 months old).

    We will also hold off on the varicella vaccine for now. The varicella is a very common - yet mostly benign - disease for children. It is actually far more of an issue to catch this disease as an adult (especially female) than it is for a young child. In this instance, we will test for immunization (some kids get the disease when young without a lot of symptoms) as she get older (pre-teen) and we may vaccinate then if she hasn't caught it before that.

    You can also break the MMR vaccine so that you only give one component of the vaccine at a time (which is what we will be doing).

    Also, it may be a good idea to spread out the vaccines. The current US vaccination schedule gives up to 6 vaccines at a time. We actually decided not to give more than 2 vaccines at a time, and of these 2 vaccines, no more than one vaccine contains aluminum (refer to the Vaccine Book which will tell you which vaccines contain aluminum or not).
     
  12. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Good post Audrey. Thank you.

    Have you found any resistance from your paedeatrician?
     
  13. cdrocco

    cdrocco Member

    114
    7
    18
    Don't want to be banned, so i'm writing. I don't have kids nor is there a plan (at the moment) to have kids any time soon.
    Being in the military, I have a hard enough time refusing vaccinations for myself (flu, anthrax, smallpox, etc) so if/when i do have children, I will probably do the bare minimum.
     
  14. strive4more

    strive4more Member

    58
    4
    8

    I just started reading the thread and I am not sure if this has been asked.


    I don't give my children the chicken pox vaccine. My old doc was cool with it. We recently moved and new doc asked if I would consider changing my position because of MRSA. She said 20 years ago MRSA wasn't scary. But now--watch out and that is worse than having the chicken pox.

    Thoughts?? Anyone else heard this?
     
  15. strive4more

    strive4more Member

    58
    4
    8


    When my oldest was born in 2004 there wasn't a rotovirus vaccine. It was taken off the market. So he was never vaccinated for it. Never had any issues with it either.


    My second child recieved one dose of rotovirus, was never around other children. We lived in the country...so his exposure to others was limited. And wouldn't you know...he got rotovirus.

    Right before round two of rotovirus, it came out the current vaccine was dangerous to children and it was pulled off the market.


    I am not against all vaccines. But I am against some and do not vaccinate for those.
     
  16. Audrey

    Audrey Well-Known Member

    1,077
    138
    63
    Surprisingly, no (I was expecting more resistance than that). Then again, we are vaccinating (albeit using an alternate schedule - similar to the one included at the end of the Vaccine Book - and opting out of certain vaccines). The American Academy of Pediatrics has revised their guidelines regarding vaccines (probably because they've recognized that parents don't follow the guidelines blindly anymore) and they do advise now that pediatricians work with the parents and respect their choices. Pediatricians still recommend the standard vaccination schedule, but mine was more than willing to work with us using an alternate schedule.

    Researching the issue and being informed helps a lot too as you can then explain to your doctor your reason for choosing a particular vaccination schedule (or even opting out of some vaccines). In that situation, you show your doctor that you have thoroughly researched the issue, instead of just blindly saying no because you lack information.
     
  17. Erik

    Erik Admin

    48,420
    912
    113
    Which ones if you don't mind sharing?
     
  18. Audrey

    Audrey Well-Known Member

    1,077
    138
    63
    Mississippi and West Virginia. These 2 states require absolutely all children to be vaccinated in order to go to either day care or school.
     
  19. strive4more

    strive4more Member

    58
    4
    8
    I do think there is a genetic link concerning sensory issues. My father-in-law is a wack job in many areas. The same could be said for my husband. My FIL has major issues with textures, tags in clothes-so much so I had to tell him not to clip the tags out of my children's clothes. Everything has to be just so and just right. For example he bought a new tv and the logo reflects too much light,he had to put duct tape over the logo. My husband is very sensitive to food textures and has a huge list of foods he can't eat. Very uncomfortable in social settings like his father. Neither can soothe themselves. Need oral soothing. Like cigerattes, chewing tobacco or straws. Can't stand to have his hands dirty.

    My son had some swallowing issues and while being evaulated for sensory issues my husband recongized many of the "symptoms" in himself.

    But he was a "sensitive" picky, child. I think these disorders have been around for ages, but now we are realizing early intervention can help with them.
     
  20. strive4more

    strive4more Member

    58
    4
    8


    With my first child I was really uneducated on this and he basically got whatever they offered till he was two.

    But now I am opposed to hep B, rotovirus, chickenpox and I need to look at my list. (but it's still packed). My second child is on a slow schedule.

    I am pregnant with my third and I do not believe I will allow vaccines till age two. I nurse till age two anyway.
     

Share This Page